The first weekend of World Try-outs are over and all the hopefuls are on their ways home to Oregon, California and probably a few other states...
After a vigorous weekend of drills, scrimmages, timed mile, and even small group interviews, the players fortunate enough to have been invited leave with a wealth of new ultimate knowledge they will be able to take back to their programs.
For those of you who attended, let us know how you felt it went. What aspects of the try-out were most difficult? What was easiest? What shouldn't have been a part of it and what stood out as essential?
Who do you think should make it after seeing the diversity of talent present? (If only 10 could be picked from the west coast, who should it be?)
Sunday, March 09, 2008
Post-Junior Worlds West Coast Try-out
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117 comments:
in no paticular order....
1. Grant 2. Jacob Janin 3. Casey Ikeda 4. George Stubbs 5. Matt Raider 6. Jimmy Hooper 7. Alex E 8. Julian Childs Walker 9. Michael Revelas 10. Austin K.
The seattle kids seemed to all have pretty good tryouts. SAAS, Lakeside, Hale, and Northwest were pretty well represented.
Who do people think were the top recievers/cutters?
Nearly everyone was good. Having trouble picking any standouts other than some of the college players (Grant and Patrick Roberts especially).
nick spiva
first 10 agreed. A couple could be exchanged with players like Sam Brickwede or Simon Montague
I was not impressed by nick spiva. The two hopkins kids, Greg and Sam, were both solid. Like the third comment, I felt like there werent many stand-outs, everyone was solid. For college, Grant and Casey and Alex seemed to lead. For high school, other than Jacob Janin, nobody seemed to be clearly dominating.
nicky was pretty sick in the weeks before tryouts, so i bet he was out of shape. he also plays at mcgill which means that he hasnt played outdoor ultimate for a while.
on another note, if you want credibility. stop posting as anonymous
I'm uncomfortable with hyping anyone from tryouts, having enjoyed the weekend too much (and liked the people I met) to tarnish the experience by making a simple "who's better" analysis. Luckily it would be difficult to do too much hyping anyway. I agree with 2:27. Some of the better college players stood out. Everyone else was solid. Few spectacular plays. Few true "superstars", but a lot of players who would be capable and effective on Team USA. I felt the level of defense was, perhaps, a bit lacking. Matched up on a lot of people who were difficult to cover but easy to get away from. There seemed to be more handling talent than cutting talent.
Just my two cents. Hope I can maintain credibility and anonymity. Thanks to Jodie, BVH, Gwen Ambler, and Sam for running a great tryout by the way.
How relevant is a timed mile to a game of ultimate? It seems to be the trend (at least in the blogs) that long distance running does not simulate the type of running in ultimate. There are even doubts that it is related to the same type of endurance as playing many games over the course of a day.
Are those coordinating the tryouts lagging behind, or do they have a different take on the effectiveness of long(er?) distance running?
also in no order:
1-Grant L
2-Pat R
3-Janin
4-Hooper
5-Rehder
6-Greg A
7-Brickwedde
8-Casey
9-Stubbs
10-Alex
Believe me - you see more in the timed mile about what kind of player and teammate someone is than in anything else that you do at try-outs.
Can those of us who weren't at tryouts get some commentary? What are the players who've been mentioned good at? How high was the general skill level?
i heard brickwhatever didnt finish the mile. any truth? and how could and would and should this affect him?
any standouts from the girls?
are these pat r. comments a joke?
he was the deep last year for amherst, no?
if so, he is not better than most of these others listed guys, he got rolled all over the place in the finals of easterns.
Brickwede, Allan L, and Matt Rehder did not run the mile. Jimmy Hooper cramped and didnt finish.
why though?
injuries most likely.
Taking the college kids out of consideration, who are the top 10 high schoolers from the tryout? top handlers? top cutters?
everyone can do everything but the best highschool players at tryouts are:
Janin,Hooper,Rehder,Terry's,Kale,Isaac Saul, Arenson, Brickwedde, Revelas..... those are some of the bigger names who tried out.
watch out for Dan and Diyou from Memorial....they will make some noise if they are going to Georgia
Sorry I'm annoyed. The poster was asking for information about the Seattle tryouts, not a list of big names trying out. What actually happened on the field? Is anyone good who hasn't already been hyped?
The timed mile is interesting but ultimately had little effect on team selection last time, as the top milers didn't make the team and some of the slowest/non-finishers did.
If someone showed a truly alarming lack of fitness it might have counted against them, but Darden was still going to make the team, 7-minute mile or not.
there werent any big suprises at the tryout..
you (anonymous 10:14)annoy me.
there are a few things i noticed at tryouts, and a couple of people that were outstanding at certain things. first of all, Grant pretty much dominated. Janin also dominated just running anyone gaurding him into the ground. Matt raider had some sick D's even though he was banged up. Mike Revelas had some massive bids and can get up. Julian childs-something was also very impressive to me in all aspects.
As for the tryouts themselves the mile at the end of the first day definitely sucked, but all in all i thought it was pretty well run, and i learned alot it was fun getting to play with all 40 amazing players
are the atl tryouts gonna be better or worse than the seattle? for girls too
anon's 5:01 list had 6 college players on it which is un realistic because the team is only allowed 6 or 7 correct? and there are returning world's player's such as norden who are trying out on the east... future lists should probably only put 3 or 4 college player's
For those that are asking what happened specifically at the tryout, stop asking. We did drills, ran, and scrimmaged a lot. The Seattle tryout camp cant/shouldnt be compared to the Atlanta one. The coaches acknowledged this themselves.
One thing I will say is that I didnt like how the coaches were singling out some players more than others, especially on the second day. Yes, it needs to be done maybe because these are tryouts for a national team, but you dont have to be so obvious about it. I was a little bit disappointed in the feedback we were getting from the coaches.
First, just want to say I had an absolute blast at the west coast tryouts. The overall level of play and spirit was terrific, and I feel that there are a lot of combinations of players out there that could make for a winning US team.
Although I really only played with him on the second day, I had a blast playing with Julian CW who I had never played with or against before, he's got lots of talent and great judgement, quick and solid hands. Also really active on the mark. Grant and Alex E both played very well. And stop hating on Patrick, he's a very solid player, very very few mistakes, and he's improved since last year, also he knows where to be and what to do, aka he's got a fair amount of xp. Also had a blast playing with Casey on the first day (we were on the same team for scrimmage) he was really easy to click with in terms of anticipation of where to throw to him, and he knew where I was going as if we had played together for a while - I could cut open and then deep break and expect the throw going up on the in cut. Pretty funny when he sky'd Ben in the swirly huck drill.
I thought the level of defense was a tad bit low (compared to the offense), but I don't think that it was representative of what the players are capable of producing.
As for my own tryout, eh, I had some tight plays, and some stupid throwaways (a couple too many perhaps), haven't been to a competitive tourney since canadian nationals and we're just doing some indoor practices now, and had no/little endurance - was really sick 1.5 weeks ago, went to hospital. w/e
Overall strengths - zone offense was run very well (especially considering everyone was new to each other and tweaking the zone's they knew to homogenize), horizontal offenses.
Minor issues - deep defense, straight up marks.
Let's go USA! p.s. team bear owns
Alright, here it is. Overall, I am a pretty difficult dude to impress but here were my impressions, first, overall. Saturday was pretty lame, lots of physical testing in the morning (which was fine), then the afternoon scrimmages were very flat and just not good. I think many players left with a bad taste in their mouth. Sunday was way better as people came out with more energy and stuff just cleared up, people really got to shine.
Individual people. First off high schoolers, Julian CW played well, good throws and quick all over the field. Jimmy Hooper also played well though he was inured...the kid can put it deep. Jacob janin is awesome, other than those three, no one stood out too much, matt r. made some plays, mike r. did alright, and both the hopkins guys played alright though injured. College kids, Grant clearly, Stubbs if he was healthy I am sure would have played great. Patrick roberts was solid, not flashy but didn't make mistakes. Alex E played really well suprising many as no one really knew him and Casey was not 100 percent but still played well.
Overall a fun tryout, well run by all the coaches. hopefully the team can reproduce the success of a few years ago.
The tryout was alot of fun, I agree with whoever said that the second day felt alot better skill wise.
There were so many good players out there that it was hard to even try to pick out a team. I felt like Grant, Casey, and Alex all dominated for college players, but for high school it was different. There were a bunch of people who were making huge plays, but also having lots of turnovers and bad decisions. Other people were less showy but played really consistently. It will be interesting to see whether the coaches chose the players who showed more skill, or those who showed more consistency.
Jordan Taylor
yo what about possible alternates?
Of the big names at the west-coast tryout, are any set on where they will be heading to college this fall? Any information would be sweet.
Jimmy Hooper.
Dylan Freechild.
Arenson is going to the University of Minnesota
Brickwedde is going to Oregon
Jesse Moy!
why is no one hyping up Quincey Mitler? Best Ups and Throws of anyone at tryouts. He did spike it alot though, and kept screaming "MURRAY!"
the spiking did him in...the UPA hates that kind of stuff...with good reason
Spiking is destroying the very fabric of humanity. Right Kyle? Here's a legit question, was Kyle ever good at ultimate? no.
Mona
if Quincey doesn't make the team, because of spiking its really unfair. It would be ALMOST as ridiculous as Nate Castine not making it.
agreed that Nate Castine not making it was one of the most ridiculous decisions ever made by the coaches. But that was 2 years ago. what school does this quincy play for ?
or bode miller.
he was so much better than every member of that team.
paideia and amherst 'poster boys' included
while nate may have been the by far best d player at that tryout, the coaches are supposed to put together the best team and if that means not taking a player because of attitude to make the team chemistry better, then thats what they should do. if this quincy guy is the kind of guy that will destroy a teams chemistry (not that nate was, he probably got more shit than he deserved) then he doesnt deserve to be on the team, even if he is the best single player there.
Frank the Frank?
Jake the Snake!
From the research I have done, Kyle was a great player, coming up through the Paideia system, going to Brown, and then getting severely injured on a layout, only to be in the hospital for weeks (months?) with a ruptured spleen or pancreas.
He then went to work for the UPA bringing Juniors Ultimate to the forefront of peoples minds, helping to create the awesome community we are all a part of as you read this. Hope you are able to enjoy it enough to respect what HE has done, even if some of you feel the need to try to tear it apart with comments and baseless hatred.
Thanks for your work, Kyle. Most of us appreciate all the work you have done for us.
If Quincey doesn't make it because of his attitude and the spiking then it was a good decision by the coaches, High School ultimate has no place for spiking. I say if you make a huge a play or a score you act like you have been there before the only thing spiking does is make your opponent more fired up. I played against a team that had a good player and he scored the first point for his team making it 1-1 and then he spiked the disc all it did was make our team more fired up and we ended up beating his team 15-4 or something like that.
Thank you, anonymous 9:25am. For the record:
- I injured myself skiing and not laying out.
- It was my liver that I lacerated not my pancreas or spleen.
As far as being good or great I suppose that's a relative term. I am no Chase Sparkling-Bentley.
I would list the teams I've played for and coached but it shouldn't make a difference in how seriously you take my ideas.
Also, on this subject, keep in mind that these players are representing the USA in an international event. I want the other team to go back home and tell their fellow Ultimate players that the US was the best and classiest team at the tournament. Not that the US was the good but they were a bunch of d*cks.
I wasn't at the try-outs but there are enough great and classy youth Ultimate players that there is no reason to take a player that is not classy.
no, most of us do not appreciate all the work you have done. Most of think you are a joke, and if you talk of any of Kyle's former teammates they will agree. The decision by the coaches not to take Nate was a terrible decision, in a long line of terrible decisions. Worlds is all about who you know,politics. Which is why some of the best players have stopped trying out. In regards to the USA having the classiest players. There have been some total dicks, and several bonafide drug dealers on the team. But because they play for Tiina and Mike they made it. I think it is now public knowledge that worlds is all about political crap. that doesn't mean it doesnt suck though.
and Kyle I pray that when my ultimate career is finished I am known more for something I did on the field then my rants about spirit on HIGH SCHOOL message boards. And my constant policing of blogs to see if anyone mentioned something you don't deem to be "classy." it is a pathetic legacy to leave. I would sign this post, but I wish to try out for worlds in a few years and this would immediately end those chances.
junior worlds is a cult.
paideia and amherst ftw
anonymous 2:13
theres good reason why your rant would end your chances and its already been addressed on this post:
you're a d*ck and no one wants to play well for their d*ck of a teammate.
I appreciate what you've done kyle
kyle is a D-bag....agreed
I think its hilarious whoever brought up the drug dealing thing. So true, but so unnesscary.lol
Im sorry anonomys 2:10 I must have been on vacatoin or something the season you played along side Nate Castine. Stick to what you know, and you don't know Nate or Kyle.
Thanks Kyle, you've done some good things for youth ultimate.... The Paideia and Amherst kids are taken so often because they are so coachable. They don't have they could, and play as an entire team(SUBTRACTED A FEW). The Paideia and Amherst kids play at a high level of ultimate, and thats why they are taken more often, because they are more coachable, and they play unselfishly as a team.
and Kyle you should just know not everyone is as rude as some of the people who write on this blog.
paideia and amherst kids are such products of the system.
the only reason anyone talks about p roberts is that he went to amherst. and now goes to carleton (which gets similar recognition)
you're a punk and won't make worlds... Na, na, Na, Na na!
Kyle did more in 4 years for youth ultimate than ALL of the national junior directors over the first 30 years of the UPA COMBINED!
Without Kyle there would be no YCC, no Easterns/Westerns, no coaching clinics - so much would be lacking. Youth ultimate would still be in the dark ages, if not for Kyle!
So it matters to him that players have and display character and integrity (on AND off the field), and you've got a problem with that?!?
If so, it's clear that you lack the character and integrity that any national coach looking to build a TEAM for a world title would even consider choosing.
Seriously, are you nuts? Do you actually even know Kyle? Grow up!
if keeping deserving players off the worlds team is something to be proud of. Then Kyle should be in the hall of fame. Kyle has organized tons of tournaments and stuff of that nature. I think everyone who's written here is just unhappy about how ridiculous and biased the worlds selection process. But i agree, grow up. We all know that Kyle is D-bag and Worlds is and always will be a popularity contest. So accept it, and stop posting trash on this site.
of course worlds is a popularity contest. life is one too. get used to it!
SUCK ONE!
i dont know if the most recent posts were by people who were actually at the west tryout, or have tried out ever before for anything but...
i will agree that worlds is a lot of politics, and partly a popularity contest.
i will contend that if chosen at random, any 20 kids that show up for the national tryout will be able to cream the rest of the international competition. no one that showed up didnt deserve to be there. the competition was very stiff. choosing 1/4 kids is difficult, sure...but...
one thing i was displeased with was the attention that certain coaches gave certain players. some kids were addressed 2-3 times the whole weekend, some of them just to get their name right - while other kids got a lot more attention. it was obvious, blatant, unnecessary and most of all - unprofessional. if you claim to be on a mission to select the nations' best players, do your job the right way.
if you want to talk about classy, the coaches should be the first to exude such an aura. when a coach goes to a player and tells him he basically made the team hands down, in the presence of other tryouts...thats not classy. only 20 minutes before they were preaching about how they dont know who is on the team blah blah blah...
if you want the players to carry themselves in a certain way, then the coaches should be held to the same standard. coaches wont be spiking discs in anyones faces, but they have other ways of deteriorating team spirit.
i bet more than half the team is down on paper before anyone even shows up for tryouts. of course no one will ever admit to that. it would be a crime.
now, the coaches arent all bad, they are very talented and knowledgeable. i respect them, and not just because i have to. but they should hold themselves to a higher standard, or at least a standard they are expecting out of high schoolers.
and this is no attack on kyle. i was actually looking forward to meeting you in seattle, and was a little disappointed when i heard you werent there. you have done a lot for the youth scene, and it is appreciated.
Speaking as someone who a) made the team, and b) came into tryouts knowing two people, neither of which made the team... It's not a popularity contest.
There ARE things taken into consideration aside from skill. Yes, they're looking for a complete team, and even if Player A is a better all-around player than Player B, B might make the team for one specific team.
More importantly, geographical diversity is taken into consideration (from eveything I've heard). It's probably why I made the team. If you disagree with that policy, then tough. But Kyle was not the only person responsible for the decision to not take Nate, by any means.
Also, as needs to be reiterated: if you play(ed) high school ultimate since 2002, you OWE Kyle. Like him or not (and I guarantee that anyone who's actually met Kyle would EVER call him a D-bag), he's done a lot for you. He committed six odd years of his life to giving YOU more and better opportunities to play.
Finally... every single US Junior National team has medalled. Every one. Three gold medals for boys, two for girls. The year that Nate (who, incidentally, I really like and I'm sure isn't aware that such ridiculous accusations are being thrown out in his quasi-defense) tried out, the boys won the final by what, ten points? The stats say that they're doing pretty well.
And please, if you can't put your name on your beliefs, you shouldn't be saying them in a public forum. Sack up and sign your posts. Honestly, Kyle's a nice enough guy that he probably wouldn't hold it against you.
Sorry for the length. Just had to get that off my chest.
Cheers,
Brenna Hokanson
#27, USA '06
Balls. Second paragraph: "...for one specific REASON."
Brenna
And again. I need to proof read these long posts...
"...and I guarantee that NO ONE who's actually met Kyle would ever call him a D-bag."
I have met Kyle, and played youth ultimate and I don't owe him a god damn thing. The coaches are completely unprofessional and biased, thats not debatable. Medals have nothing to do with it. Any summer league pick up team could beat all of the international competition. Brenna, RELAX.
Great thread! Five stars!
I came to read about try-outs since I wasn't there and am interested.
Since I'm no longer the Dir. of Youth Development for the UPA I have little to do with this year's try-outs (although I'll be assisting at the Boys East Coast Try-outs).
When I was Director of Youth Development I was not involved at all in actual team selection - I left that to the coaches.
I've got a quick question to anyone who was there? How many coaches/instructors were at the West coach try-outs for the boys? For the girls?
There were 5 people at the guys tryout, and 5 people at the girls. 3 coaches and 2 helpers at each. Funny enough i was one of the people evaluating the girls. I hold only a small grudge against the coaches that year. It has faded due to the fact that I'm now on the senior team. For all the people placing blame on kyle, you need to stop. He is a really nice guy, and has done huge amounts for the youth scene. Not making that team made me work that much harder and now i have something to show for it come August. Good luck to all the people trying out and I agree with brenna. Only post if you sign it.
P.s. I would not have ever seen this unless someone hadn't sent me the link.
Hey folks,
As always, feedback, constructive criticism and your thoughts and suggestions on the try out process are highly encouraged - but it needs to come to me directly if you really want to help improve the process for future years.
There were over 140 boys applicants and 100 girls applicants. Narrowing those fields to 80, then to less than 22 each is a daunting task. The try out camps are an experience and 160 players will be given or were given the opportunity to work hard, be a part of something bigger than their home town, an opportunity to make new friends - and for a small percentage of players that experience will culminate in a trip to Vancouver.
I'd be happy to talk more about the try out process once the Atlanta camp is past. I don't think it's particularly fair to anyone to go in depth when the process is still on going for some players.
And just like Kyle, I don't determine who plays on either team but I do work with the coaches to try and ensure a fair process. Reading the above posts...there are a lot of assumptions being made about intentions or the meaning of actions that I would hesitate to say are accurate. But, if players felt that there were concerns here that need to be addressed, that's another great reason to drop me an email or give me a call.
What's difficult about making assumptions as to who has already made the team and who hasn't, is that more than half the players have yet to try out. No one knows what Atlanta will hold and we all just have to hang tight and see what happens. I will say that we are shooting to announce the teams by March 31st.
Up in Burlington this past weekend I saw a lot of heart from a very skilled group of Ultimate players. I saw new friendships forming and players who were trying out with, not against, each other. Despite the rain Saturday morning and cold temperatures through out the weekend, I saw positivity and concentration. The try outs are two grueling days, and yet I returned home Monday to a slew of emails from players expressing how much they enjoyed the experience.
The boy's try out was run by Ben Van Heuvelen, Jody Avirgan and Derek Gottlieb with local help from Sam Harkness, Gwen Ambler and Brook Martin.
The girls' try out was run by Eileen Murray, John Sandahl and Chelsea Putnam with local help from Nate Castine, Matthew Knowles and Sam Chatterton-Kirchmeier.
Thanks to all of our local help, we absolutely couldn't have run the camp as smoothly without you.
To everyone who is coming to Atlanta next week, travel safe and I will see you there.
Thanks ya'll,
Meredith
meredith(at)hq(dot)upa(dot)org
303-447-3472 ext 115
Popularity contest? You youth players are giving yourselves way too much credit. As if Gwen, Brook, and I went into that tryout knowing anything about all 40 of your skills, personality, and experience. I knew about 8 guys there total, and everyone else was new to me.
I thought about not posting to defend anyone because I didn't really feel like the coaches, Kyle, or the UPA needed defending. I did however come to realize that it's important to me that all you youth players trust in the UPA, Merdedith, and the USA coaches and more importantly continue playing at the highest level of competition you can. So hopefully some of you can be convinced that the system is trying to work to benifit you, because we all know the UPA and Kyle just love to oppress youth ultimate players, that way the sport can die out in the near future and make way for a new era of Extreme Bocce.
If you want to talk to me personally about any issues you had, you can e-mail me. More importantly if you want any feedback on your tryout, I can give you that too. The sooner the better while it's fresh in my head.
Sam Harkness
sirnothing@gmail.com
Kyle......you suck
and in terms of it being a popularity contest. BOB WANG MADE THE DAMN TEAM!!!! and Nate didn't. Why? Bob sucked up to tiina for 2 years. And all Nate did was dominate youth ultimate with his defense.
Classy? Has anyone watched Sam Kanner and Christian Foster playing for carleton??? they are the epitome of bad spirit. Ticky tack calls, spikes, and trash talking. But they were amherst players. So fair is fair.
I think my biggest gripe with the worlds system is that the coaches make evaluations on a players attitude, and spirit based on one incident. If Tiina or Mike saw a player spiking it once, or making a bad call, or a dangerous play, then that player had no chance of making the worlds team. Despite their obvious talent. Amherst and Paideia players have their bad moments too. Terrible calls, trash talking. But since Tiina and Mike coach them they know that this behavior is not indicative of who the person is as a whole. One moment of bad spirit can ruin a players chance for worlds, if he doesn't play for amherst of paideia. And its such crap
AMEN!
NOT a popularity contest??? are you kidding?
All i have to say is:
Stephen Panasci over Noah Saul.
game over
What really stinks about Worlds is that it's really the only kind of recognition a high school player can get. So when a player doesn't make it, for some silly reason, he isn't acknowledged as one of the best players in the country. And that really hurts. Nate was without a doubt one of the top 7 high school players in the country, but didn't make the team for some asinine reason. And that sucks. What there should be is an All American team. Something that gives recognition to the VERY BEST high school players in the country. This way the players that are actually the best players in the US will get some recognition and the USA coaches can keep taking the best/classiest/most connected high school players. I hope that someday the international competition gets to a level where the US needs to take the BEST players in order to medal. As it stands right now, they could basically take anyone they want and still when the gold.
Zander Padget is the best player in the country right now. And he will not be trying out. What does that say about the state of the junior worlds team?
I don't understand...Aren't you all acknowledging Nate as being one of the best high school players in the nation even when he didn't make the team?
Sounds like Zander has nothing to prove then aye? Probably way above worlds caliber anyways.
anonymous posting sucks
sincerely,
anonymous
Zander is definatley not the best the country. Yous a hoe
Let me break it down for you: Tiina and Michael both know how to build winning teams. They've proven that year in and year out for something like 15 or 20 years. I don't really care who you think the best players are - I care what the people that know what it takes to be the best think.
let me break it down for you: any summer league pick up team could win the gold at junior worlds. Winning has nothing to do with it. And tiina and mike are consistently wrong.
I don't know if worlds is totally a popularity contest, but it is to some degree. It certainly helps to be playing for a program like Amherst or Paideia; the history of the USA teams proves that. In 2006 alone Paideia had 3 on the team and at least 6 tryout. Amherst had 4 on the team (5 if you count Darden who had already graduated) and at least 8 tryout. However, there will always be those players that you've never heard of make the team because of a good tryout (i.e. Alex Kapinos, Chris Brennenborg). Also, if it were only a popularity contest, Nate would've made it. Everyone on this blog has described him as a dominant defender in high school and he went to a well known program in Nathan Hale so I assume he was a well known player. So I guess it's a little bit of a popularity contest and a little not.
And Zander Padget is the best player in the country
does zander play for a club team?
more importantly who does Quincey Mitler play for? Kyle= SUCK ONE!
Zander was offered a roster spot on Pike last year but turned them down for various reasons.
I'm hesitant to chime in on this issue because I see it from both sides and know how difficult it is on both ends. There were only a couple people who made the team that I hadn't listed on my top 7 O/D/universe line list that we wrote at the end of Sunday. One of the people who I thought deserved to make the team was Allen Jarvis, who might not have made it because there were already 3 Paideia players picked and Baccarini wanted to avoid charges of bias.
To whoever brought up Noah and Stephen, I have never seen Stephen play better than he did at tryouts. He had a much better tryout than Noah, who is also a very good player.
At the same time, there is a lot of politics involved in tryouts and inviting players to tryouts. Evan Padget didn't even get an invite to tryouts two years ago when nobody could say he didn't deserve it based on skill. Coaches didn't even give him a chance to show that he could play spirited, respectful ultimate in a different system.
As a tryout and an ultimate player, I have to say that all this bashing is ridiculous. Tina, Kyle, and Mike have devoted huge amounts of their own time to youth ultimate. Although there are some problems with the Worlds system, character attacks and vitriol are ineffective. Especially when UPA representatives are so willing to listen to legitimate concerns.
Some legitimate concerns:
(1) The initial application process is kind of a popularity contest, more so than tryouts. Since everyone has sterling recommendations and reasonable answers to the application questions, one wonders how the coaches make their selections. The reputation of the recommendation writer and the coachs' prior knowledge probably have something to do with it out of necessity. It might be easier to replace applications with a brief video of actual play.
(2)With all due respect to Sam, the coaches did show a little favoritism at tryouts. One coach remarked on the first day of scrimmages that two tryouts would be a "great matchup." One tryout was a former Worlds player. The other was simply a highschooler with a reputation. My point is that the coaches, obviously, are involved with youth ultimate. They've heard of some players. And they know who is expected to make it. Suggestions on how to make the process more neutral?
(3) Obviously, Worlds produces a lot of excitement. I agree with the earlier poster who said that this is because it is "the only kind of recognition a high school player can get." The UPA should recognize that eighty great players show up to try out each cycle. Selections often seem arbitrary because nearly any of those players, on any given day, can do well against the rest. This is born out in the high school scene. It seems unfair that someone should have a good two day tryout and then be recognized.
Has the UPA considered channeling the excitement over Worlds recognition into something more satisfying than a two day tryout and then dissapointment? Maybe energize the YCC by making the winning team Team USA? Or, if people would hate the lack of a true national team too much, perhaps take the best players from all State finalists?
Ultimately, solutions like these would help grow the sport. As the 86 and counting comments on this thread attest, the current system is fostering a lot of resentment among some of the country's most motivated youth players.
I heard that the coaches try to choose players based on Geographical representation as well. I think this is a good idea too to help spread the growth of ultimate and it gives lesser known people a chance to play and prove them selves. Just because they dont attend an established ultimate school shouldn't lower thier chances of making a team or even tryouts.
I mean, its obvious that OR WA MN MA etc etc have amazing ultimate but what about those other states that send one or two people?
I'd like to see a team that is represented by the COUNTRY, not only players from those same states over and over. If the kids from lesser states don't have great ultimate programs, they may not have had the chance to be as great as the kids from established schools such as Northwest or Ahmerst. Worlds could be what they need to get to that next level as long as thier dedicated and willing to learn.
If the coaches did this, perhaps the "popularity" contest would end and the team would be more about developing youth ultimate and transforming deserving players into elite ultimate players.
"NOT a popularity contest??? are you kidding?
All i have to say is:
Stephen Panasci over Noah Saul.
game over
3/14/2008 4:41 PM"
Just so ya know, Noah didn't right that, he is in the Bahamas and obviously computer less.
-Thoughtful brother Saul
write*
anon 12:56
letting only the winning ycc team be team usa would stifle piss a lot of people off. like it was mentioned before, this is the only recognition individual high schoolers get. we need to keep giving amazing players from not so amazing teams the opportunity at a really prestigious title (world champs).
anon 1:13
picking the team based on geographic reasons as much as skill would not be a good idea. there are a lot of other actions being taken to help grow the sport in other states but taking a spot on the team away from a well deserving player because he or she lives in an "ultimate hub" is just plain stupid. the transformation of deserving players into elite ultimate players should happen regardless of your state of residency.
*take the word stifle out of the first sentence
some things to keep in mind.
1) Tiina and Mike and Kyle have no formal involvment with the coaching of this year's team. It is BVH, Derek and Jody.
2) pointing out that there are 80-some comments on this board doesn't mean much. about two thirds of them are probably from one or two pissed off players (likely in the Columbia/Pennsburry area, I would guess)
3) Quincey Mitler does not exist, at least he didn't at tryouts.
Yo, geographic diversity is taken into account, but I'm sure that it's not as important as skill.
To anon 12:56 -
The application system is no longer the only avenue to get to the US Junior Team try-outs. US Junior team coaches scout at YCC so performing well at that tournament can get a player to the try-outs.
While I was at the UPA I worked hard to build a more robust system to allow unknown players or great players from small Ultimate communities the opportunity to get a shot at the Junior national team. When I started there the team had always been picked from only applications. In 2004 we added the try-outs and in 2008 we added scouting at YCC.
For 2008 the head coaches were also chosen by committees made up of representatives from leagues whose teams performed best at YCC. This ensures that the coaches are respected by many national level youth organizers and organizations.
My point is that the UPA is trying to improve the system - but no matter how it's done people are going to disagree with who makes the team. Choosing a team is more art than science and everybody is going to think that their teammate or friend should make the team.
And it's certainly fair to disagree with some of the decisions the coaches have had to make in the past. But, I have yet to hear any suggestions that would make the process better at selecting players to make the best youth Ultimate *team* in the United Sates.
This is anon 12:56. Thanks for responding Kyle. I only recently became aware that the coaches scouted at YCC; that's a definite improvement.
You asked for suggestions that would make the process better at selecting the best youth team in the United States. I agree that the system is still flawed.
For one thing, I'm not sure how much helpful data tryouts actually produce. In Seattle we were tested on agility, speed, and endurance. The coaches admitted that mile time is not necessarily a useful indicator of ultimate ability. But the speed and agility tests aren't always good indicators either-there are plenty of highly effective players who might not do well on such tests.
I'd assert that the scrimmages aren't useful indicators either. It's difficult to show your full abilities when playing with new people. This is one factor that favors the more "connected" players. If you know more people at tryouts, and specifically if your team has a lot of tryouts, there's a higher chance that you'll be able to show something on both defense (covering someone you know) and offense (cutting and throwing for a known factor). I suspect that this has as much to do with the high proportion of Paideia/Amherst/NWS players as any favoritism.
Even if the tryout process were perfected, there would be something arbitrary about selection based on what amounts to some agility tests and six or seven pick ups.
Maybe the UPA hasn't gone far enough in tying Worlds to YCC. I still think this would be a great way to energize the YCC and remove a lot of the perceived unfairness from the selection process. What if a committee of YCC team and Worlds coaches selected the team from among all YCC participants? It would save the UPA a little money, and cost about as much for the players as tryouts do. Plus, this would involve more people.
So, if your team doesn't go to YCC for some reason, you don't have a chance at Worlds? How is that supposed to be fairer than the current system?
I admit that's a problem. I think you'd have to expand the YCC to a few more teams, which is somethings that's been discussed often. In that case, with all three divisions, only a very small number of potential tryouts would be left out.
Of course, this might not be the best way to change the system.
Anon 12:12 said "So, if your team doesn't go to YCC for some reason, you don't have a chance at Worlds?"
No, you absolutely still have a chance at Worlds if you're not at YCCs. Scouting at YCCs is a way for the coaches to gather more data on players and to add in another great reason to attend YCCs.
But to reiterate: Someone can definitely make the Worlds team even if they weren't at YCCs.
"(likely in the Columbia/Pennsburry area, I would guess)"
My guess is you would be wrong, Columbia players do not post on playultimate any more, they are focusing on the season and set their own team rule of no posting, no matter what the topic.
I would also guess that wrong for pennsbury. They (much like chs) have a good showing at worlds tryouts. So it would be very hard to see how Pennsbury and Columbia could be mad or upset.
Kyle, you have no need to even post what great things you have done for youth ultimate, we all know that the youth scene looks a lot brighter thanks to your hard work.
As for saying this person is awful, this person is great, this is a popularity contest.
The hardest thing to do is make a team of great players mold together and win a worlds event. Examples:
2000 worlds had great players (Chase, Dylan, Jeremy Cram,etc) who have done much damage in the open club scene and they lost to canada and I think they placed third over all.
1994 and 1996 worlds had players like Fortch, Mosses, Nord, and still did not win it all.
So it is not as easy as one would think to put together a great group of players from the US. I have faith that BVH and his coaching staff will do a great job with the team they select.
Anthony Nuñez
CHS Coach
"(likely in the Columbia/Pennsburry area, I would guess)"
My guess is you would be wrong, Columbia players do not post on playultimate any more, they are focusing on the season and set their own team rule of no posting, no matter what the topic.
I would also guess that wrong for pennsbury. They (much like chs) have a good showing at worlds tryouts. So it would be very hard to see how Pennsbury and Columbia could be mad or upset."
Damn Nunez. Now your just taking words out of my mouth.
Isaac Saul
Pennsbury
Whatever happened to John Bloch?
What were some of the mile times?
Im pretty sure Grant had the best at a little under 6 minutes...
I dont think the mile times will affect the choice very much, just those tough decisions for the coaches
That's smart - in retrospect I feel like an idiot for winning the mile in 5:24 in 2006 and going all out on my fractured pelvis when I should have been saving energy for Sunday.
I think that there are much better ways to test players' fitness than the mile, especially if players aren't going 100%.
typical US to rule out all other nations before the tournament has even began
anonymous 2:31... What is it that you are saying/protesting? Who did the US "rule out", and how, before what tournament began?
I am pretty sure Yossi Kakou ran the fastest mile in the 2006 tryouts(Pulse)
It's possible - I was at Atlanta tryouts. Patrick Roberts ran second in 5:25 and the next was Grant around 5:38
yeah gray hoffman ran a 5:04 mile... so i'm pretty sure he won overall.
Hi Guys,
I'm from Australia and I played at the 2006 WJUC. I'm also an Assistant Coach for the Australian U/19 team heading to Vancouver later this year.
As I've been reading the comments in this topic it's made me want to mention a thing or two.
My experience in 2006 was that Team USA were a really great bunch of guys. They were well spirited on the field and very hospitable off it.
Kudos to the 2006 USA Coaches for selecting such a great "TEAM".
There have been some comments on here regarding the USA being so strong that they could send any combination of 20 athletes to Vancouver and still win the Gold.
My experience in 2006 was that Team USA were never really challenged throughout the tournament, comfortably winning the final against Canada. (Not saying we would have won, but I would like to have had a proper AUS vs USA match).
I feel it's a bit too "big headed" to assume the USA will win Gold that easily this year. Canada will be playing at home, Japan and Germany are entering this year, and I can only imagine how much Columbia has improved.
You'll be heading into the event as strong favorites, but I'm not sure it will be so easy this year.
In terms of High School Ultimate in Australia, it's almost non-existent. We're slowly getting things started but are a very long way off from anything that is going on in the USA.
You should all be appreciative of the effort that has been put in to get High School Ultimate to where it is in the USA.
I look forward to reading the Team USA list when it comes out in the next week or so. Good luck to all those trying out and congratulations for making it to this stage already.
See you in Vancouver!
Matt "Timill" Hill
timill (at) headsofstateultimate (dot) com
Matt,
You probably realized this, but just to make it clear, the views of most of the people who post on this blog are of a very extreme variety and are definitley not held by a large portion of our juniors community. I was at the Atlanta Tryout this weekend, and I saw nothing but exceptionally spirited play and gratititude to the coaches and assistans. As a player who is going to be crossing his fingers for the next week, and also as someone who knows many of the other players who tried out, I think it is safe to say that Team USA will be compromised of athletes who are smarter than to make assumptions about any team they might face. With that said, I appreciate your comments because I am personally tired of reading the BS in many of these anonymous posts. Good luck to your team,
Russell Wallack
P.S. If people actually believe in what they are saying then why do they continually post anonymously. Is it because you are embarassed of your view? You know your view is wrong? Or are you simply scared of the repercussions? If any of those questions can be answered by a yes, then maybe you should reconsider what you are saying.
what happened in the east?
fsho, who stood out in atlanta?
umm, are they gonna make a another thread for east coast tryouts? that would be nice
East Tryouts? Lets here about em!
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