Saturday, March 15, 2008

YCC Bids Accepted

Will Deaver notified accepted teams of their status this evening for the 2008 Youth Club Championships on August 9th and 10th in Blaine, Minnesota.

What teams were accepted? What teams weren't? Who are the 2008 favorites in each division?

17 comments:

The Pulse said...

DEVYL, a NJ/Philly combo league, will send a team to the Open division.

Anonymous said...

Pennsbury/ Columbia. Should be good. Why do we even bother using region names? Let me guess. North Hills will be going. As well as Amherst and Paideia. And the Northwest School/SAAS/Lakeside combo.

Anonymous said...

why the hell is it the same weekend as worlds? does that make sense to ANYONE?

Josh said...

The Boston Ultimate Disc Alliance will be sending 3 teams.

Anon 3:17 - Well, mainly due to the big monetary commitment to participating in Worlds and YCCs, I doubt very many players have the option of playing in both... so having the tournaments on the same weekend doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me. On another note, I am bummed I won't be able to watch the Junior Worlds finals and coach at YCCs. Oh well. ;)

Anonymous said...

I really disagree with the decision to host this on the same weekend as worlds. These are the two events with the highest level and quality of competition for ALL of youth ultimate's tiny little world.

1. The simultaneity of the tournaments will detract attention from each other, devaluing both youth events.

2. The mission statement of the UPA talks about "enhancing competition." I don't see how taking worlds kids out of the YCC picture improves competition.

3. If you don't want the best players at YCC, can you at least be up front about it? This sneaky maneuver sounds like something that would happen in high school social drama... "ok so lik the party's gonna be next sat, k?"
"but shamel, u kno i have that cheerleading competetion saturday!!"
"huh, ooo, ummm srrrry i guess you cant go"

Josh is probably right that most players can't do both, but the UPA's job isnt to be your mom lolz, its to provide opportunities to play and this doesn't.

I'm not a worlds player, more like bench warmer, but i still enjoy watching the best competition and I feel the UPA's making everyone who follows youth ultimate blow their load all at once. I'd love to hear any refutations that could change my mind, but right now I think this is just a terrible decision.

-a

Josh said...

Full disclosure: I am a UPA Board member and I absolutely adore the YCCs. Everything in this post is my own personal opinion.

In case people haven’t read these documents before, I highly recommend that you do:

http://upa.org/programs/youthdev/comp_guidelines#YCC

http://upa.org/juniors/championships/ycc_faq

http://upa.org/upa/board/proposal

Moving on…

Here are the first two lines of the YCC guidelines:

“The UPA Youth Club Championships is an experimental event. The goal of this event is to provide national level competition for youth Ultimate players and encourage local, non-high school based playing opportunities for youth within the UPA structure.”

It’s right there in the first line that YCCs are an experimental event. The event has not been perfected and could certainly change. The second sentence is really, really important in that it does not say that YCCs exist to act as some sort of national competition that supersedes Easterns and Westerns. No, YCCs exist to “encourage local, non-high school based playing opportunities for youth within the UPA structure”, and it does exactly that.

I think many people are under the impression that YCCs are supposed to be some sort of super Easterns/Westerns. In part they kinda are in that teams from the East, West, and lots of places in between come together to play each other, and the competition is really, really good (even w/out 40 worlds players), but… YCCs exist to get lots more than just those 40 worlds players another place to play against each other. YCCs exist to help spur the growth of non-HS based leagues. That’s what they’re trying to do, NOT replace the HS National Tournament that was last run in 2004.


Anon 4:21 said “These are the two events with the highest level and quality of competition for ALL of youth ultimate's tiny little world.”

First off, I don’t think youth Ultimate world is “tiny”, but I guess that’s a matter of opinion – This is not to say that I think we should sit on our laurels and not grow the sport because it’s soo, soooo big – certainly not, I think we still have HUGE amounts to grow. I just think the existing youth community is pretty dang large and healthy in size. I mean, just look at the numbers – 400 youth UPA members in 1998. 6,700 in 2007. Around 50 or so boys and 30 girls applied for the worlds team in 2000. For this year’s worlds team there were 160 boys and 120 girls. (My numbers could be a little off – someone please correct me if I’m wrong.)

Just 10 years ago there were maybe 3-5 large HS youth tournaments in the whole US: Nationals, Amherst, Spring Reign, and ?, along with 10(?) State Tournaments. This year, and again I don’t claim to know about all events, we have: Westerns, Easterns, Amherst, Spring Reign, YCCs, Madison, Hopkins, Paideia, St. Johnsbury, East Invite, Hip Hop, Terminus, and many other very competitive, very well run events.

Yes, YCCs and Worlds are super awesome events, but there are lots of other super awesome events out there that I think players, coaches, and fans enjoy just as much.


Anon 4:21 said “The simultaneity of the tournaments will detract attention from each other, devaluing both youth events.”

I agree that the simultaneity (great word btw – seriously) of the tournaments does split our attention, but I’m not sure if split attention really devalues the event that much. Kids still are going to want to play in both. Both tournaments are still going to be a ton of fun. Both events will serve as wonderful places to play Ultimate. I do agree, though, that it would be really great to be able to focus on one event at once, but I rarely get to do that at any point in my Ultimate life ;)


Anon 4:21 said “The mission statement of the UPA talks about "enhancing competition." I don't see how taking worlds kids out of the YCC picture improves competition.”

From what you’ve written, it seems to be (I could be wrong here) that you’re equating enhancing competition with making something more competitive. The thing is, they are not exactly the same thing. Enhancing competition can translate to making something overall more competitive, but it doesn’t have to. Enhancing competition could also mean providing more opportunities for more players to compete, which YCCs certainly does.

Here’s something to think about – If the 40 worlds players aren’t at YCCs, that means 40 other players have to step up and fill some great roles. These step up players will have to play in new roles and play in new pressure position. This will make those players better and more competitive – Thus, we have 40 players at worlds getting better and 40 step up players getting even better. (Yes, you could say that these 40 step up players would get better playing with their worlds brethren, but you also have to realize that there are only a static number of spots at YCCs – So, 40 less Worlds players opens up lots of spaces that wouldn’t normally exist.)

Yet another thing to think about – Even if Worlds and YCCs were separated by months, it would still be the case that very, very few players would play in both events. First off, as I mentioned before, it’s financially out of reach for the vast majority of players. I take HS club teams all over the US, made up of kids from VASTLY different socio-economic backgrounds, and very, very few of them are able to do multiple flights in a year. What I’m trying to say is that just being in the same year causes Worlds and YCCs to compete for players – and the only way to change that would be to make YCCs every two years. If that was the case we’d lose a hugely fun, rewarding, and amazing event every other year.

Yes, I do think the character of YCCs is slightly changed during Worlds years, but I don’t think that character change is “bad” or necessitates any sort of radical shift in how things are done. (I DEFINTELY admit that I could be wrong here. I am TOTALLY open to hearing ideas on how things can be improved.)


Anon 4:21 said “If you don't want the best players at YCC, can you at least be up front about it? This sneaky maneuver sounds like something that would happen in high school social drama...”

As I said before, the YCCs are about growing non-HS based youth leagues. This goal meshes well with giving “Worlds” players yet another place to play great Ultimate, but that’s just a side-product. As for being sneaky… the dates for Worlds2008 and YCC2008 have been publicly broadcast for at least…. 10 months? More than that? Also, these two documents have been online for several years:

http://upa.org/programs/youthdev/comp_guidelines#YCC

http://upa.org/juniors/championships/ycc_faq


Anon 4:21 said “Josh is probably right that most players can't do both, but the UPA's job isnt to be your mom lolz, its to provide opportunities to play and this doesn't.”

The UPA is providing 40 worlds players the time of their life. The UPA is providing 300+ players a phenomenal place to play in the form of YCCs. Those are some pretty slick opportunities to play.

Worlds and YCCs being on the same weekend does make it impossible for a small fraction of the 40 worlds players to also play at YCCs every other year. Personally, I’m not too broken up about that.


Anon 4:21 said “I'm not a worlds player, more like bench warmer, but i still enjoy watching the best competition and I feel the UPA's making everyone who follows youth ultimate blow their load all at once. I'd love to hear any refutations that could change my mind, but right now I think this is just a terrible decision.”

You do bring up a good point about splitting attention once every two years. What do you think should be done about it? Two things to keep in mind:

1) From the YCC FAQ:
Q. Why August?
A. The timing of this event has been discussed extensively and was quickly narrowed down to August or October. Youths’ lives are very neatly divided into four seasons: three school sport seasons (Fall, Winter, Spring) and the summer. The event should be held at the end of one of these seasons, so as not to require multiple seasons of participation for players. Since the Spring is already used for our High School Championships and the winter was impractical, August (the end of the summer) and October (the end of the Fall) were the only two logical choices.

The advantages to an August event are:
• Youth able to travel during the summer
• Event could be extended in future to 3, 4, or 5 days
• Adult club players that play in the fall would be able to coach
• More choices for venues
• Doesn’t conflict with Fall sports season
The advantages to an October event are:
• Doesn’t conflict with Worlds every other year
• Juniors may have other summer plans

2) How many resources do you want to put towards catering to just a small fraction of the US youth Ultimate community?


I love the YCCs and think they are a phenomenal event. That being said I’m sure there are ways to improve the event.

So… what do you think should be changed?

One request: It would be phenomenally helpful to me (and I’m sure LOTS of other people out there) if you signed your posts.

Anonymous said...

sooo

its cool to cite the Official Guidelines, but my opinions are from my YCC experience. experiences, yo. straight from the streets.

The biggest contradiction I see about this whole scandal is the spectacle factor. the UPA has gone to great lengths to make this tournament look like a classy, legit sports natties. <---and THis is awesome btw!!

we turn this tournament into a spectacle.

ol J Mech comes out to post pro pics on the internet! Teams are fresh and all business in their special club jerseys! Tryouts are held to pick the best from the local high school teams!

There's no denying this, and there's also no problem with it. Josh keeps talking about how much he loves YCCs-I'M with him. It's becoz YCC is an awesome crazy spectacle.

A huge factor of the spectacle is the talent.
1. We want to see talent
2. Worlds kids have talent
3. We want to see worlds kids

At this point urr thinking, oh go watch worlds, but i think YCC is just as important of a level of geographical competition. you got local league tourneys, then regional tournaments like westerns/easterns, YCC, worlds.

Worlds players can rep their local league teams. they can play at westerns and easterns.....

The biggest thing here is that I, and I'm thinking most other hardcore youth players who read this blog and follow scores (this is what i mean by our tiny world) also will agree, IS THAT the UPA needs to accept that

>>its OK to make this a spectacle<<<

Bad players like me need heroes and inspiration, like any other sport. You're very kind to offer these 40 roster spots to worse youth players who want to show their stuff, but its ok to take the best.

Sports are about spectacle. here's a timeline:
gladiator battles---> jousting--> superbowl

It's ok to make this a spectacle, UPA! we love it!

-a

Anonymous said...

make YCC and Worlds different weekends because people who make worlds I know will want to play YCC. also if some place like Seattle or Mass sends a number of players to worlds than their YCC team will be hurt badly, thus not accurately portraying the rankings between the regions.

make them different weekends. It will make everyone happier.

Kyle Weisbrod said...

YCC and Worlds are put on by two different organizing groups (UPA and WFDF respectively). The UPA sets their dates for YCC before WFDF sets their dates. In 2006 those dates did not conflict.

Josh's post explains why the UPA puts the YCC in August.

Obviously it is not ideal when they conflict and I'm sure the UPA would prefer them to not. However, the UPA must set the dates early to make sure that it is a well run event. If WFDF would set the dates for Worlds earlier, the UPA could probably schedule around it.

-Kyle

Anonymous said...

this sucks

Anonymous said...

Seattle boys and girls will dominate YCC again this year. Both had extremely strong showings at worlds tryouts.

Anonymous said...

thats a given.... who's getting second. WEST COAST

Anonymous said...

To anonymous 3/21/2008 10:39 AM since they had such a strong show at worlds try outs, then wouldn't they all be on the team, making their ycc team lack, and having other teams dominate?

Anonymous said...

Obviously not all of them will be on the Worlds team... plus isnt it looking like the Worlds kids could fly to YCC on the friday to play on saturday and sunday?

schrieber said...

I'm disappointed to see that no teams/leagues from Oregon have been awarded bids in the Open division, yet again, especially after a summer league was initiated last summer with the hopes of receiving a bid this year. There's one more reason to add to the list of reasons why YCC is not a "super Westerns/Easterns." I'm sure Seattle will do a wonderful job of representing the west coast, and I hope they do, as they are the ONLY team from the West Coast in the Open Division (unless Denver counts...). If a real tournament to determine who the best youth teams are is what youth players want, based on the above posts I don't see YCC as that avenue. Good luck to all the teams that do get to go, hopefully I will make Worlds and it won't matter that I can't go to YCC anyway.

Throw Discs, Not Bombs

Kyle Weisbrod said...

Schrieber,

Was the Oregon Youth Summer league UPA sanctioned? If so, did the league apply for a bid to the YCC?

If those two conditions were met, Oregon should have certainly received a bid.

-Kyle

davidschrieber said...

Kyle,
I was actually just checking back here to remove my post. The Summer League was sanctioned and Oregon did receive a bid to YCC but the contact turned it down because of concern for the number of players and cost. I just found that out after writing my above comment. However, not all of the players knew we had the bid and now there is a feeling that a team could be put together for YCC and hopefully be at the top of any waiting lists to get back into the tournament in case other teams can't make it.

Thanks though, I apologize for my uneducated rant and ill-will towards YCC.

David Schrieber