Tuesday, August 14, 2007

Post-YCC Reflection?

YCC 2007 is now in the books. The champions have been crowned, the jerseys traded, muscles are in recovery, and players have gotten back to their lives...

But, with the tournament still fresh in many people's minds, I'm curious your reflections. What parts of the tournament stand out strong for you (good or bad)? How was the competition? Did your team do as well as it should have, or were there surprises?

What needs tweaking? What needs to remain the same? What needs to be added? And what needs to be removed to make next years' experience all the more?

On a side, here are the photographs from our experience:
Full Album
Highlights Only


Fantusta said...

As Philly's statkeeper and fake coach, I was amazed at the awesomeness of the two games between Philly and Atlanta. It was clear that other cities couldn't field two teams (open or women AND mixed) and compete with these two top-tier cities and teams.
But especially in the final, the game was played very well, the kids were not upset that they lost, because they knew they had been a part of a great game.

-Chris Vanni

Anonymous said...

Can anyone who attended ycc's throw out a few names of players that were scouted for worlds? I know it's a little early but if anyone knows of any players that were scouted and how they performed that would be great

Kyle Weisbrod said...

My thoughts:

- Having the tourney hotel have an indoor waterpark is awesome. I mean AWESOME!

- Having been to each of the three YCCs I'm impressed at how much the play has improved each year. I think the US is really expanding their lead in the level of play over Canada, Australia, and the European teams thanks to the great work of all of the coaches and organizers throughout the country.

- Don't fly out before 8pm on Sunday night. It's a bummer not to hang out after the finals for the awards ceremony.

- It is great to have the US Juniors Team coaches at YCC. It gives dozens more interested players the opportunity to be watched in action and not cut on applications alone.

- It's hard to get players to commit enough time over the summer to make the team really feel like a "team." Only for brief periods of time did the Atlanta mixed team really feel in sync and players weren't in the type of shape that they are at the end of the Spring HS season. I guess that's understandable - but perhaps in future we'll have a year long "club" team (or teams) that attend(s) tourneys and occasionally practices.

Atlanta I-20 Coach

Kyle Weisbrod said...

Also, Philly played really well in the finals. Their non-Pennsbury pick-ups were huge for them particularly Aman, Eddie Peters, Tree (?), and Carly. I can't recall their women turning it over in the finals at all while playing crucial roles.

Thank you guys for really "bringing it" and making that game sweet.


Eddie Peters said...

Andrea "Tree" Bowring - Lower Merion going to Cornell.

The Pulse said...

In the open division, there was definitely a sense that any of the top teams could beat one another depending on how well they gelled and how well they were playing right at that moment. Minnesota went from losing 15-4 to Pittsburgh and being down 5-2 and 6-3 to NJ, to figuring out their zone and going up 10-6 on NJ and beating Pittsburgh in the 3/4 game.

New England similarly struggled early with their man offense and defense, but their zone defense stifled every team they played until Seattle.

Am I alone in thinking that 90 minute rounds were too short? The horn blew in each and every one of our games (except the 5/6 game, played to 9), although the only one that made me really mad was the Minnesota game.

For worlds next year, I don't know how the coaches can continue to limit college players to 1/3 of the team - recently graduated seniors looked so much better than their high school counterparts.

Mark Dundala, George Stubbs, and Jeremy Norden are/were the three best juniors throwers in the country.

I think that the open division can expand to 16 teams next year if the UPA will solicit bids from leagues like Northern California, Tennessee, Virginia, etc.

Ace6 said...

what if the YCC actually turned into a junior club tournament....were individual teams send in bids, rather then leagues...this would widen the competition and make for teams with great chemistry and more interesting offenses and defenses

Anonymous said...

this is justin principi #72 from philly. the weekend was really great well worth the money and time i put into it. the finals was a very intense battle between two very skilled teams that love to play eachother and really just bring out the best in both teams. im sure it was much better than last years final and really i wish we could play again. i seriously give much respect to the girl (sorry i dont know your name) who caught game point it was an unexpected sick grab.

Anonymous said...

i think an expansion to 16 open teams would be much appreciated by the girls division. if atlanta and philly were to send single gender teams, i think that it would up the competition in the girls div.
since seattle has lost 8 very powerful seniors, the gold will suddenly seem much more attainable for a lot of teams.

Anonymous said...

"Mark Dundala, George Stubbs, and Jeremy Norden are/were the three best juniors throwers in the country."

Mark Dundala is not even the best handler on his team...

"since seattle has lost 8 very powerful seniors, the gold will suddenly seem much more attainable for a lot of teams."

Seattle only won the finals by 4, which is a healthy margin, but I don't think any team going went in with the mentality they COULDN'T beat Seattle, the gold is always "attainable"

The Pulse said...

I didn't say handler, I said thrower. Noah and Scotty are more mobile and perhaps better decision-makers, but Mark has better breaks and hucks.

Anonymous said...

i agree, the gold is always attainable. but when you look at the scores that the seattle women put up... their starting line is exceptionally strong and it shows with a halftime score of 8-2 on oregon. yeah, seattle wasnt a sure thing and everyone had a chance... but you cant deny that they are the powerhouse team. 3 wins in a row with only 2 players lost. takes a lot of pep talks to get yourself ready to play them.

Alex Peters said...

-Waterpark in the hotel is definitely key. I'm sure the teams that stayed at the NSC dorms don't know what they were missing.

-Half price appetizers in the restaurant from 5-7 equally key.

-Something needs to be done about the dinner at the fields/captains-coaches game, it's really a non-event. Why stay for that when you have waterslides and 1/2 price appetizers waiting for you at the hotel?

None of the best players will play the exhibition game anyway because they are tired and don't want to risk injury when their teams are still very much in the running. I suggest one of three things; a feature game between local club teams; a coaches vs coaches game (east vs west?); or somehow hold the captains-coaches game on the check in day.

-Regarding that last point, I think the tournament should expand days, even before it expands teams. I know that has always been part of the plan, but it's time already. The effort and money it takes to fly cross country deserves more days to make it really feel like a major event, I mean it IS a national championship.

-Day 1: Teams fly in morning/afternoon, check in to their hotels, then go to the fields for team registration, captains meeting, opening ceremony, and eat food while watching the captains-coaches game.
-Day 2 and 3: Play. Waterpark. Appetizers.
-Day 4: Finals, staggered so everyone can watch. Fly home.

After day three (when all but 6 teams are eliminated) there would be a jersey trading party, as that seems really popular now.

-Anon 1:22, Noah Saul should have made the team last year, and should make the team this year.

-Justin Principi led SEPDA in fantasy over the weekend at +22. Dennison Beaches played a sick tournament, leading SEPDA in goals caught including several vs Atlanta. The kid just turned 16.

-Aman Nalavade suffered a clavical contusion in summer league less than a week before the event, and healed up just enough to play huge. This does not excuse his inexplicable attraction to chick flicks and Sex and the City.

-We only brought 6 women, we wanted to bring 8, but people dropped out and no one was willing to replace them. Only one team went 4-3 women all weekend and that was Minnesota, who brought 11 women and like 6 guys. Carly Maconaghy played 104 points, Andrea Bowring played 97.

-Having designed the uniforms and hats, I think we looked damn good.

Anonymous said...

i was a little bit surprised at the lack of tourny food. usually there are bagels and fruit. but i really dont remember seeing any food provided by the upa.

Anonymous said...

Holy crap, did anyone see Ben Vigus from Seattle play in the open final? He made more big plays than the worlds kids combined (Jeremy Norden, Casey Ikeda, Andrew Hollingsworth) in that game.

New England's MVP of the final should probably go to Patrick Roberts, solid stud that made several plays, and I'm positive if given any more chances, would have made a lot more. Clutch player that had no problem guarding Seattle's best.

Anonymous said...

Ben Vigus and the worlds kids might have had huge plays but nobody dunked on fools like Harry Howell.
Welcome to Hale.

Anonymous said...

Word to anon 5:40

Anonymous said...

"At 8/14/2007 9:05 PM, Anonymous said...
i agree, the gold is always attainable. but when you look at the scores that the seattle women put up... their starting line is exceptionally strong and it shows with a halftime score of 8-2 on oregon. yeah, seattle wasnt a sure thing and everyone had a chance... but you cant deny that they are the powerhouse team. 3 wins in a row with only 2 players lost. takes a lot of pep talks to get yourself ready to play them."

Actually, the Seattle girls lost 6 players from the 2006 team. 3 to graduation and 3 to various other reasons. Not that replacing the 8 seniors from this year's team will be a simple task, but it can be done in Seattle.

Anonymous said...

"I didn't say handler, I said thrower. Noah and Scotty are more mobile and perhaps better decision-makers, but Mark has better breaks and hucks."

Mark Dundala throws in the mirror to watch his form, maybe you've just been deceived...

-Isaac Saul

Friend and Teammate.

Anonymous said...

harry howell is a beast. Teams sucked on D's nuts also.

Welcome to hale

Anonymous said...

Let's not forget Alex Kapinos (#10 BUDA), a Worlds standout from last year. This kid played huge in the final.

Mike Mullen said...

Hey all,

A bunch of comments about the tourney and open division:

This blog needs to get rid of anonymous posts. All that Welcome to Hale stuff is just plain stupid for so many reasons.

Waterpark versus dorm? Waterpark of course. Had we only known, though the dorm staff was great, logistically it was easier to stay in the dorm, and it was pretty cool to see the kids from various Denver and Seattle teams throwing on the dorm field on Friday night.

Three day tourney? Yes, yes, yes, great idea. Could it even be Tuesday-Thursday? Wouldn't it be cheaper to fly in for mid-week rather than weekend? Staggered finals are okay but I would only off set by 45 minutes. More importanly the number of games per day could be cut down which would be safer.

Tourney food? I think it is superfluous. Every team should be having team parents going to stores anyway and bringing coolers of food and water/gatorade anyway. It would be nice if there was a UPA handout for parents with suggestions of what to bring and what to do on the sidelines to help.

A lot of credit needs to go to everyone involved in running the tourney. It was a first class operation.

I was very impressed and pleased with the level of competition. It really looked like 3 teams from each open pool had a chance if they got hot on Sunday. And every team we played had at least one national team caliber player. Good luck picking a team BVH, it will be tough. And from what I saw of Cincy and Madison, they will have a chance next year. There seemed to be enough depth that teams will still be strong next year even without their worlds players.

Coaching a club team is way different than a high school team. There was very little time to prepare and hard to find games. We don't do as well as we did without getting 3 games with the U of Washington team and one game with some club men from Seattle. I'm not complaining, I'm just saying it is a different thing.

Before the tourney I wasn't sure how I felt about college players playing. After the tourney I was all for it. The three college guys (were there more?) that I recognized were great leaders on their teams and had great spirit. They made for a better tourney.

Obviously I enjoyed the tourney but it wasn't just the winning, it was also the high level of intergrity on each team as well as all the excellent coaches including many young coaches. There are so many good people in ultimate.

Speaking of great young coaches. Sam Harkness was my assistant and he has worlds coach written all over him somewhere down the line. We don't win the tourney without his coaching. I'm done coaching HS age ultimate so hopefully he will be the Seattle Open head coach next year.

I really enjoyed seeing some of the less well known Seattle players come up huge in the tourney and the finals. Obviously teams knew about our worlds players but we had a couple of superstars only a few people knew about.

My 16 open teams for next year or the year after if we can get everyone to play ball:
Boston (Buda)
New Jersey
Vancouver, BC
N. California
New England (NEPSUL)
#16? Can't think of one. Who should it be? Or is there a better 16?

And lastly for those players who want respect for this sport from outside the ultimate community, it will be up to your generation to get out and start elementary and middle school leagues. Get the players young and they (and their parents) won't look at ultimate as a unique alternative sport, they will just see ultimate as another sport.

Take care all - Mike Mullen, Seattle Open Head Coach

The Pulse said...

Tuesday to Thursday? No, for the simple reason that people would have to miss almost an entire week of work. As it was, I had to miss two days (Friday and Monday).

Three college guys? NJ had three alone, I know Denver had a couple, as did Philly, Minnesota had Feldman, NE had Andrew, etc.

As for food being provided, I didn't mind not having so much tournament food - the most important thing is providing water, though. Having the water right on the sidelines would be an even better improvement, especially with the wide distances between fields easily allowing for golf cart access. As it was, going over to get water takes players out of the current point completely.

My 16 open teams for next year:
New York (state)
Texas? Toronto (they have a league?)? NC? NEPSUL? Anyone else?

Also, so many of the Atlanta girls were freshmen! That's ridiculous, you'd never tell from watching them play.

And yes, the showcase game was probably not the best idea. Sub Zero vs. Coaches or something else could have been a lot of fun, though.

I was one of the people who kept roving around, trying to watch all three finals games. I settled on mixed and girls, as I saw Oregon and Atlanta mount their comebacks in the second half. I'd definitely be in favor of Sunday stadium finals back to back to back.

Anonymous said...

Personally - I'd love to have more food and water on the fields. I suppose if you have a ton of parents there with deep pockets, you don't have a problem - but you've got to realize that's not the case for everyone. Philly had zero parents there.

That's my only complaint (and it's a minor one). Overall, the tournament was, as always, awesome. I had a great time.

Serious props to half-price appetizers. Those things were awesome!

-Rob Olson

i rock anonymous said...

with all due respect mike, i read this blog as much for the cocky banter and petty jokes as i do for the informative discussion.

oh! i almost forgot:

Russ' 'n' 'Lex said...

I wish the NYC team either didn't fall apart, or at least the coach should let the UPA know that he was no longer interested in leading a team.

In the future, I'd like to see a NY State (including NYC) mixed or open team.

Anonymous said...

yeah all we got was a bag of bagels and some bananas for 14 people? it was pathetic. we payed hundreds of dollars to fly there. i hoped to not have to spend even more money on food that most tournys supply.

Anonymous said...

In the mixed division the play was awesome,especially Atlanta vs. Sepda.

The games were really competitive but managed to stay spirited which is not all that common. Thanks Atlanta for two awesome games!!

For Sepda i think that are none pennsbury pick ups like Eddie Peters, Aman and tree were huge, but are pennsbury players like noah, scotty, mark, jay principi, and beaches kept are offense running while getting tons of d's

I think that the finals should be staggered. It would of been awesome to watch some of the open and womens finals.

I second that Team USA should not use the 1/3 ratio this year. I mean it's juniors ultimate, not high school ultimate. So why can't we have a team with the best juniors players on it. Does anyone know what this years team will consist of.

-Carly Maconaghy
Sepda #16

Anonymous said...

I disagree. There are obvious reasons for maintaining the 1/3 ratio on the world's team. You'll notice that Pulse didn't say it shouldn't be done, only that it will be difficult. For one thing graduated players have access to high level play--something many high schoolers can't find--in the club and college divisions. For another it's great that the upa has chosen to use worlds as an opportunity for cultivating youth ultimate.

trying to learn said...

While watching some of the games I saw something interesting and wondered if others noticed. The Seattle open team played very distinctive O and D lines. Everyone on the O line was over 6 feet tall and the line was dominated by strong handlers. The D line had maybe 1-2 players who were 6 feet tall and the rest were small and quick.

What was interesting was to watch the D line work the disk after a turnover. Because of the lack of traditional handlers, the D line used a very up-tempo, short game that seemed to keep opposing teams on their heels. It looked to me to be the most effective offense given that the strong, gusty crosswinds made long hucks difficult.

I am interested in what "opposing players to Seattle" have to say about the difference in playing defense against Seattle's D-line versus their O-line.

Anonymous said...

Hey, if this is indeed Mike Mullen's goodbye, I don't want to let the moment slip. So Mike - thanks for all you've done for Juniors ultimate in the NW and beyond, you've really set an amazing example and have helped develop some fantastic representatives of this sport. So you should be proud, and happy trails in whatever you've got planned next!


Alex Peters said...

"For one thing graduated players have access to high level play--something many high schoolers can't find--in the club and college divisions."

What does this have to do with anything? It's the Juniors World Championship, a tournament for the best under-20 players in the world. It is not a highschool tournament. It has nothing to do with highschool except that a lot of kids under 20 happen to be in highschool. It's ridiculous that kids are denied from the team because they happen to be in college, even though they are better than people who made the team. Note also that the tournament only runs every two years, so if you're a senior in highschool in a non-worlds year, and then you go to college, you are pretty much screwed.

"For another it's great that the upa has chosen to use worlds as an opportunity for cultivating youth ultimate."

You mean highschool ultimate?

Anonymous said...

I would like everyone who is advocating for a greater college representation on the worlds team to step up and say how old you are. Tell us, what is your real motive for wanting more college players on the national team? Do you want to play? Oh get over yourselves.

The Pulse said...

I'm too old. Alex Peters is too old. Eddie Peters is too old. Carly is probably not too old.

But the point is valid - and three years ago they stretched the limits and took more college players.

Seven people who made the 2006 team or were named alternates will be young enough to play. Not that they're a lock to make the team, but if all tried out that would be more than 1/3 of the team right there. That completely ignores players who became a lot better their senior year in high school and deserve a chance to make the team.

Alex Peters said...

It's awesome getting called out by an Anonymous. I'm 22. My motivation? Because the best players in the US should be on the team. How old are you and what is your motivation for NOT wanting the best players to play? Is it that you're not in college and you don't want a college kid taking your spot? Hmm...

Alex Peters said...

"That completely ignores players who became a lot better their senior year in high school and deserve a chance to make the team."

They have a chance. If they are good enough, they will make it. It's that simple.

If you're a college player now, you can be good enough, and STILL not make it.

Which if more fair?

The Pulse said...

I'm with you - players who tried out as juniors or weren't good enough to try out, then got better their senior year, and now don't have a chance to make the team now that they've graduated.

Eddie Peters said...

My comment was generally along the lines of Alex's, go figure. I just wanted to say I'm pretty amused at how fast both of you repsonded, and how I was a few seconds away from posting when I refreshed the page and realized I didn't need to because four comments filled the gap.

Also, Ryan, I never stated on this forum that I advocate eliminating the college ratio (even though I do). No use bringing me into this conversation.

The Pulse said...

I only mentioned you to say that Alex wasn't advocating eliminating the ratio in order for you to make the team.

Eddie Peters said...

Ah, thank you. That makes a lot of sense.
I didn't get that indication because you named me and gave me an entire sentance to myself.

By the way, Philly got a 4 in spirit this year. As opposed to a 1.8 last year. The only thing we did different was not spike, or get captains agreement for spikes. We even cheered a team/let Mark entertain. Or maybe it was just because we went Mixed.

Anonymous said...

"It's the Juniors World Championship, a tournament for the best under-20 players in the world. It is not a highschool tournament."

Of course not. The point is that the US team is run under the auspices of the UPA.

I agree with Ryan that this graduating class represented a major swell in talent. If the ratio were eliminated, then I would expect the team to be majority college players. I agree the current system "ignores players who became a lot better their senior year in high school and deserve a chance to make the team." This isn't fair. But it's no more fair for players (especially those, as someone else said, who are only eligible as seniors) among the best in their year to be crowded out by players who've had a year of college play to improve.

We should be grateful the UPA is trying so hard to expand highschool ultimate. It's important.

Anonymous said...

Where did everyone's competitive edge go? I completely agree with Alex Peters, it's ridiculous too deny college players. If you make the age limit you make the age limit, I am going to be a Junior in High school next year and plan on trying out for the World's team.. If I make it and say someone like my older brother Noah doesn't, I wouldn't feel right, I know he is a better player, and he deserves a spot more then me for just that reason its simple. He makes the age restrictions, hes in the top 18 or how ever many players they take, he is on the team. Thats all, its simple. So give it a rest, I hope I get a chance for a tryout to go play with some of the best young college players in the country.

-Isaac Saul #19
Pennsbury Varsity Ultimate

Anonymous said...

what is age restriction
19 and below at the time of try out?

there are also alot of really good just graduated seniors from other schools that dont get the hype like these guys because they dont go to ycc and their teams arent as good. i know some good tennessee players (esp brutal grassburn) and north carolina ones who would make the team, but not with all this paideia northwest hype of just graduated players only filling 1/3. which is rediculous...make a better team.

The Pulse said...

The cutoff is that you can't turn 20 in 2008. So you need to be born in 1989 or later.

Markham said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

what if you turn 20 in 2008 after the tournament? why wouldnt you be able to play.

Anonymous said...

because them be the rules. sucks for people who have late birthdays.

Ace6 said...

Kids who are claiming it is unfair to have college kids are being completely selfish.....just trying to leave spots open for themselves.....if your not good enough then you shouldnt play hands down.....by allowing college kids to play it makes highschool kids work harder and allows the game to progress to a point where it wasnt 5 years ago...competition is making ultimate a faster harder and more competetive sport.

Anonymous said...

harder better faster stronger sport to be exact.

Anonymous said...

as a player who would be in the college age, but also would have a slim to none chance of making the team, i agree that college kids should be on the team. if they dont want them, keep the same ages as YCC, dont penalize people for playing longer, being faster, and better

Anonymous said...

ace, who are you your points are rediculous and you dont know what your talking about now

Anonymous said...

anon 11:29
learn to write.
on a side note, get better at ultimate.

Anonymous said...

So the 07 seniors are now done with youth ultimate. I don't think any class will ever come close to those 07 ballers out there. Peace out

Piels said...

the 2007 senior class was easily the best year for ultimate players ever. It's going to be hard to beat for a long time.

Anonymous said...

I agree.

Anonymous said...

Not enough has been said about the Seattle open team at YCC this year. Playing on that team was by far the best ultimate experience I've had. The talent of every player on the roster was incredible, and the majority of the players had played together roughly 4 years in one way or another, making everything that much smoother when it came to tournament time. Well-oiled machine. Other than solely athleticism, one thing that had to have contributed greatly to Seattle's success is Seattle MoHo, the club team / weekly clinic that has been happening weekly almost year round since I first started highschool and beyond. Many members of Juggernaut started playing on MoHo their freshman years, and the expertise from such coaches as Ben Wiggins and Miranda Roth greatly helped most of these players become the players they are today. The same can be said about the Seattle girls team, who've now completed a threepeat. I hope MoHo continues for many years, and thanks to everyone who takes time to coach youth ultimate!

-Nigel Peltier

Anonymous said...

So who are the top prospects for the Junior Worlds team, after watching YCC. Anyone have any names they want to mention? Also, how many of the kids will be from the west coast vs. the east coast, seeing how Seattle did so well at YCC. Any thoughts?

Anonymous said...

The US should be divided into East and West teams at worlds... I know that will never happen, but how sweet that would be to see those two teams play (Northwest school v Paidea kinda thing) and it would be more competitive with the US split.

Anonymous said...

east would roll
*note, i said east. not paideia

Anonymous said...

when are pictures coming?

Anonymous said...

WHAT!?!?!? i beg to differ...the west has BALLERS
*note i said west. not northwest

Anonymous said...

though northwest certainly has ballers

Anonymous said...

alex's photos are up, mostly mixed, in his gallery.

Anonymous said...

of course the west has ballers.
but the easy i just think is better.
-start with paideia
then add pennsbury players
needham players
nashville players
columbia players

i cant really imagine west coming up with a better elite squad than that

Anonymous said...

it doesnt matter that seattle has a smaller pool. you take the seattle ballers, and the oregon ballers(who werent at ycc, but would have made at least a semis finish if not higher), and you would definitly have a better "elite".

as for girls... oregon and seattle tooled. that team combined could probably play worlds.

The Pulse said...


This is a ridiculous, boring, and completely repetitive argument made worse by the fact that nobody from one coast knows anything about the other.

Anonymous said...

dont forget amherst in your east cost talks...
on a side note, who are you to say no one knows each other, what about players from YCC, yourself included, who played against people from across the country?

Anonymous said...

as a contributor, it dont think its very respectful to "yawn" at our conversations.playultimate is a site that exists to serve as a forum for highschool players across the country to talk about any sort of thing they want. you are not a highschool player, and its not in your right to tell us that this conversation is "boring", or "ridiculous".
if you havent noticed, hundreds of comments have been posted about west vs. east. its not boring to us.

maybe this argument is "completely repetitive", but it will most likely be repeated every year, all year long.
we like this banter.

so go find a college site.

Anonymous said...

jason mechler pics are up

Anonymous said...

while there would be no owning on either side. i really dont think that the west would win an open tournament over the east. besides some great players on northwest and south eugene, i think that the east would win.
I think that the east has more superstar players, with enough good players to match.

The Pulse said...

"who are you to say no one knows each other, what about players from YCC, yourself included, who played against people from across the country?"

YCC's, at least this year, provided such a small sample of players from the two regions. Worlds tryouts also gives good players from poor teams/regions a chance to shine - see Taylor, Matty, Chris Brenenborg, Chris Kosednar, etc.

It's likely that once again, the worlds team will not be made up entirely of Amherst, Paideia, and NWS players.

Honestly, in a battle where the best players from worlds tryouts on each coast duked it out, I think that the edge would go to the team that was better coached and had fewer drops.

"if you havent noticed, hundreds of comments have been posted about west vs. east. its not boring to us."

Write about players and how west coast teams and east coast teams play different styles of ultimate, not just "west would win!" and it would be interesting. But I don't think that anyone finds the argument-less back and forth more than repetitive.

To "your" credit, at least this recent thread actually has some new dynamic to it (west vs. east, not just paideia vs. nws) and people backing up their opinions.

Anonymous said...

the pulse is getting a wee bit defensive...

Anonymous said...

I'm interested Ryan, having never had the opportunity to see a west coast team play. How do they play a different style of ultimate?

Anonymous said...

dont make this rsd
anyways, how about a list of players who would make each team to try and make the argument more legitimate.

Anonymous said...

hey, this is off topic and has already been discussed, but since the roster deadline is here, im curious to find out what junior players are on club teams.
maybe someone could start a new thread?

seigs said...

anonymous 8:35pm is playing for Boston United.

Anonymous said...

west is so much better defensively east cannot handle the zone defences of the west coast style and as ycc showed the seattle handlers trashed on the new england "amherst" zone. as well with the west your talking about the very best from northwest, nathan hale, south eugene and churchill (the eugene teams have 4 players playing on rhino). two of which (nw and hale) would have won easterns while i would give Churchill and south a 50-50 chance of taking easterns; and nw would have beat paideia, they had too many threats, too quick of an offense an incredibly solid defense and just to deep of a team for paideia with there few super stars too match (even though paideias superstars were probably better than northwest's, nw had more). but even after those four teams you have to add the best of the best from the other seattle teams, kids like jimmy hooper and matt rehder and then theres also the minnesota and colorado kids who if you are selective can add huge to a team (hilke huge). so basically if this year there were an east and west worlds team, it is a simple fact that west would be better, the west had its best year ever and northwest probably had the best high school team ever (simply because of how much the sport of youth ultimate continues to improve at an exponential rate) and the east coast i feel took a little downwards step (amherst was nowhere near where it has been in previous years) when this discussion comes up next year i am sure that it will be a entirely different story and i could easily see the east being the better coast.

Anonymous said...

i am listening to your argument, but i dont think it is as cut and dry as that.
you are completely giving the east no credit.
look at teams with one or two players near as good as the worlds kids, like nashville and needham and north hills. no one takes much notice because i dont think they went to ycc, but trust me just because their names arent as well known, does not mean that they are not just as good.

Anonymous said...

Who do people think are the top ultimate kids that did not graduate this year, especially on the west coast. Alot of Churchill and South kids graduated, as well as Northwest and Hale. Who are some of the top prospects for next year?

Anonymous said...

Matt Rehder, Jimmy, Jullian from Seattle. Who would win a fight, Casey Baitman or Dylan Freechild? thur like exactly the same people

ben h. said...

wow, the west talks a lot of sh*t.

i have to agree with the pulse that this west v. east arguments are boring and repetitive. all this back-and-forth discussion really cheapens what takes place on the field. perhaps, initially, this sort of banter is fun but its novelty quickly wares off when one realizes that it accomplishes little.

the real action is on the field. ycc '07 is now in the past, and its winners crowned.

my guess is that the real ballers out there don't give much respect to these petty online arguments. instead, they're in the gym lifting weights, or at the track running pyramids, or throwing all hours. before the game is even played, it is won at the gym, the track, at practice. not at your keyboard, easily typing away who is best. when you've done that, you've cheapen what everyone else works so hard for.

(as an aside, i suggest that the next player/team who talks the slightest bit of sh*t, should step up and tour the country, and take on all challenges. go coast to coast and really prove yourself, instead of on cyberspace. if you really want to go around and claim the title of "the best", then you've got to beat everyone.)

Anonymous said...

great idea! we'll just ask the upa for funding! oh, wait...

and if we can't argue online, what is this blog for? don't get me wrong, i think that you definitely have to prove it on the field, but i don't think that these conversations have ever hurt anyone or degraded the sport at all. i know a lot of ultimate players, including some "real ballers," and we enjoy some trash talk and some hypotheticals every so often.

so if threads like this bother you, read different threads. to each his own, but leave us ours.

Anonymous said...

b*n h, you piss the shit out of me. I think that was one of the most ridiculous posts of all time.

"step up and tour the country."

My favorite paragraph is the "my guess" one.

Anonymous said...

that's gotta be a joke

Anonymous said...

yeah, its a hard fact that many of the "real ballers in this country" both love reading this stuff and many of them post on it as well. the anonymous posts on this blog are what make this thing the best ultimate Frisbee trash-talk/comedy on the web.

Anonymous said...

you know. as a "real baller", i actually spend all my time lifting in order to scult my body into god like form for all the womens teams out there to admire.

oh. and of course i dont give any respect to these online petty arguments.

Anonymous said...

reply to anon. 8/23/2007 5:17AM

if you're talking about open.. then yes, a lot of great players just graduated... most from churchill... a few from south.

Women only lost 2 seniors from churchill and a few from south (not exactly sure how many)

Anonymous said...

yea west talks a lot of shit
east sucks a lot of balls

Anonymous said...

lets be coherent, what are the ideal lineups for the east and west all star teams, and based upon knowledge of the players how would they fair. Lets see east I would say ollie, grant, george, alex kapinos, zander, Noah Saul, Rusell W.

West would be Casey, Jeremy Norden, Daniel Force, Jacob Janin, Hylke Sneider, and some other dudes. I have no clue who would win. But someone would win... poopy

Anonymous said...

that is the most ridiculous post ever. YOu are retarded anon 11:43. THere should be a way to detect anonymous posters and stop them from writing dumb shit like that.

Anonymous said...

screw you anonymous 4:31.

Anonymous said...

anonymous 11:43 is a bitch!!!

Anonymous said...

hahah this is so confusing

shy.in.seattle said...

if you are too shy to put your own name, at least put something else there. then you can be properly insulted or rebuked. it would make all this trash talking even more fun than it already is.

* said...

West Offense:
Jeremy Norden (NWS)
Johnny Bloch (South)
Ben Vigus (NWS)
Sam K-S (NWS)
Maybe the Ivan dude (South)
Daniel Force (South)
Nigel Peltier (Nathan Hale)

West D:
Casey Ikeda (NWS)
Milo Snyder (NWS)
Jacob Janin (South)
Matt Rehder (Roosevelt)
Allan Lavioiletleleeltle (Nathan Hale)
Julian C-W (Lakeside)
Brian Ferguson (Nathan Hale)

Prolly one more Churchill dude instead of a Seattle kid, but I don't know them well enough to know who's good.

Anonymous said...

Daniel is from Churchill not South. And Collin Smith from Churchill would definitely be included. He and Daniel both play for Rhino along with Jacob Janin and John Bloch.

That list above does have a lot of the ballers in the west, but they are all only NW region. At westerns I saw a guy from minnesota that played for Sub Zero I believe. He was good! I don't know his name though. There is so much talent in the NW, but standouts elsewhere in the west.

Anonymous said...

if your talking about ben feldmen on minnesota, he may have the talent to join that line, but hes a douche.

bored in the northwest. said...

agreed. minnesota and CO are forgotten about a lot. and most likely quite unjustly. the NW simply gets talked about more, so the players are better known.( and a lot of the players like to post here.) so if you know the names of any ballers who arent from the nw, you should post about them.

also, while the east clearly has many more schools, and more players, i believe that if you took the top players from the west, they would win. ultimate is a big deal out here in the nw. you have the best club teams, which spawn the best youth teams( due to coaching and exposure.) and a larger pool does not always mean better. oregon ycc girls were almost all from the same highschool, and they tooled.

Anonymous said...

Not talking about Ben Feldmen. This guy played for Cathedral I think, he was a Junior? Maybe. Really athletic.

Anonymous said...

To the poster at 8/27/07 8:35

Those are amazing lineups, but what would you say are those lineups if you cant use graduating players, which leaves only Jacob, Matt, and Julian C-W. Im wondering who are some top players in the northwest who will fill those slots.

.... said...

The NW region class of 07 was the best class ever for ultimate in the NW. The 4 semis teams at Westerns had amazing players. It will definitely be hard to replace that talent in the coming years.

roastmaster general said...

The South region class of '91 was the best class ever for ultimate in the South. The two teams at Mudbowl had amazing players. It will definitely be hard to replace that talen in the coming years.

Anonymous said...

Hey does anyone have a copy of the the YCC open finals?