Well, nearly 2 hours after I originally wrote a post asking people what they thought the seedings would be for this years' Easterns & Westerns, the UPA released the seedings for Westerns... (As Easterns is a week later, they have yet to release them)
Despite that taking place, there has already been some interesting comments placed online as to why the seedings were done (what factors besides RRI and state championships), who deserved better or worse seeding, who would break seed, and finally how things would play out on Sunday...
You should now see 4 posts for each Division in either Westerns or Easterns (And as Easterns has yet to be announced, your predictions are very encouraged). And with more than a solid week until the games start, keep the predictions and comments coming for either side of the nation...
WESTERNS OPEN:
A Pool:
1. Northwest School (1)
2. Cretin-Derham (8)
3. Lakewood (12)
4. Crescent Valley (13)
B Pool:
1. Churchill (2)
2. Lakeside (7)
3. Hopkins (11)
4. Cherry Creek (14)
C Pool:
1. Rockhurst (3)
2. South Eugene (6)
3. Seattle Academy (10)
4. Berkely (15)
D Pool:
1. Nathan Hale (4)
2. Alameda (5)
3. Cathedral (9)
4. Junction City (16)
Thursday, May 03, 2007
Westerns Open Division
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112 comments:
gotta wait until after AI
#1 North Hills
#2 Amherst
#3 Pennsbury
#4 Nashville
#5 Needham
#6 Columbia
#7 Lexington Catholic
#8 YHB
#9 Madison West
#10 Sycamore
#11 Princeton
#12 LC Bird
#13 NMH
#14 Fieldston
#15 Madison Memorial
#16 Middleton
All teams 1-7 probably have a legitimate shot at winning the tournament after that the other teams are on a lower level, but are still good solid competition.
wow north hills at the top. reppin from pittsburgh
Top four at westerns: Northwest, Churchill, Nathan Hale and South (not in any particular order).That really isn't debatable.
For westerns semis I think it should be set up so if Hale and Churchill make it to semi's, they should play each other.
Seems like it is debatable since the seeding for westerns is already out and top 4 are: NW, churchill, rockhurst, Nathan hale
Which leads to my question: It seems that seeding isnt done purely on RRI so does anyone know what other factors go in?
http://upa.org/scores/tourn.cgi?div=127&id=3576
We've constantly talked about who the best teams are and things like that. At the risk of sounding lame, who do you think the most spirited high school ultimate team is whether they are competitive or not?
i think it's too early to determine for Easterns, especially with Amherst coming this weekend. with that said, i think that lexington catholic, madison west, and sycamore are too high, while YHB and princeton are low. but with all of that, this field seems extremely deep and it should be a great tournament, seeding will be hard with so many quailty teams.
High school teams a) don't have enough games, and b) don't play enough teams from out of their region for the RRI to be very accurate. There's few enough high school teams going to and applying to westerns that the people who make the seedings probably have some familiarity with them, or can at least get some good qualitative input about them.
Hmm looks likea NWS-CHS final for Westerns. Looks like there will be a Seattle semi and an Oregon semi, unless Rockhurst plays as good as their seeding. Who's this team?
If Hale doesn't hold seed, they'll likely have to push through both South and CHS to get in the finals. That could make some exciting games.
It would be cool if it could be CHS and Hale in one semi and South and NWS in the other. That would be like 2005. But I agree it looks like an Oregon semi and a Seattle semi, still pretty cool. Prediction: South is going to greatly upset Rockhurst and take the third seed. South is underestimated.
Does anyone know anything about Rockhurst?
I'd like to point out that a South vs. Churchill semi would not only be a Oregon semi, but a Eugene semi. 97405 represent.
I just watched Rockhurst (out of Kansas City) roll through the MO State Championship last weekend. They are smart, athletic, and spirited. No one at the tournament could touch them. Another VERY athletic team at the tournament took them to 5-5 in the championship game, and then, apparently, their coach figured something out, because Priory did not score another point the entire match.
I've not seen these other teams from further out west play, but I know talent when I see it. Expect Rockhurst to give you all you can handle, folks.
In my experience with Rcokhurst, they are a very competitive team, with a few unspirited players (players, not their whole team). They are very good, and number 15 is their star player. Also, they are very althletic. That is what makes them stand out, and just like any good team they have good throws, good cuts, few turns.
Rockhurst is a very good team (with, as said before, a few spirit issues, but in general chill)... They move the ball really well (as good as any high school team I've seen)... I think the seeding's right on, with the possibility of a South upset. Wish I could be there to see it...
Rockhurst is a very good team and the RRI has them as second in the nation. They took the east invite in Colorado without giving up more than 8 points in a game. They looked great at the MO state Championships. 15, AXL, is definitely a great player, but they have plenty of kids that can put it. I think they get a bad rap on spirit, I've heard all of the stories, and AXL definitely has a temper, but they all (including AXL) make a concerted effort to show sportsmanship. I've caught AXL talking with other players about leaving foul discussions to the two involved, telling his team to hold off on celebration until they got away from the other team, and helping players up after a bid. The coach can get hot too, but he has never been anything short of a really nice guy when dealing with me and I've seen him take on spirit issues with his players. They had plenty of oppurtunities to get into it with the opposing sideline against Priory last week, and never bit. I have never seen any of the other teams at Westerns, but it would surprise me to find out that there are several high school teams better than them. They will bring high level play and hopefully destroy the myth about their spirit.
anybody know if drew and gray and the rest of that lakeside hs class graduated last year or this year?
yes gray and drew both graduated, but lakeside is very strong this year. I am kinda mad that CHS and Nathan Hale wont be able to play eachother. it would be a very good game. Any word about Hopikins?
While Rockhurst is very good, i highly doubt that they will make it past quarters. To do so they will most likely have to beat SEHS, CHS, NH, or NW. I predict that they will get 6th, behind lakeside
hopkins got the 11th seed, and is in a pool with churchill, cherry lake, and lakeside
Pool B is going to be tight
is pool b the overall most competitive pool? anybody know how cherry lake is this year, they have some quality wins.
Does anyone know if Chris and Jake still play for Rockhurst? Rockhurst can't have bad spirit with those guys.
Johnny B
Axe Ultimate
Predictions on the Hale-Alameda game on Saturday?
It's Creek, Cherry Creek, y'all. They're good... I'd love to see how they stack up to the likes of Churchill and Hopkins (although I hear that Hopkins lost a lot of kids this year).
Jake still plays for Rockhurst, but Chris quit after his sophomore year.
does lakeside stand a chance against churchill? who are the main guys from each team?
so there is talk of south eugene upsetting rockhurst and rockhurst not holding seed. any specific reasons?
cuz south is filthy. With players like Johnny Bloch, Ivan and Jacob Jannin, they will be tough to beat. How about Seattle Academy, Berkley, and Crescent Valley. Any star players? how will they do at the tourni?
Seedings tend to come from the teams record and the UPA also tries to get geological diversity in the pools. The pools tend to work out pretty well. Sometimes you get a unfair seeding but most times it works out. The problem is when they choose who should make it into Westerns. They seem to just go off the year before, not how the team plays the present year. They do not look at all at what graduation will do. Graduation or lack there of can drastically change a team.. they dont look at it at all. People will always break seed.. but the seedings at westerns tend to be fairly correct.
I play for South Eugene, and I don't think that our chances against Rockhurst are as good as people are making it out to be. I played against axel at worlds tryouts and he was very solid. I am confident in my team though. We have our best team since my freshman year when we got third at nationals. We are more athletic than ever, and have a few ballers. I think that the South-Rockhurst game is going to be the game of the first day, and I can't wait.
Johnny Bloch
#8
Axe Ultimate
Yeah, that Rockhurst team is extremely solid. We played against them in the finals for the MO State Championship. We were even with them for a while (5-5), then AXL exploded on offense/defense and we never scored another point. I think they're pretty much capable of anything at this point.
Pool B looks like it could be very close. It is weird how Churchill and Lakeside are matching up just like last year. That was a sweet game, maybe the best of the first day last year. It will be cool to see what happens this year. Hopkins is also a very good team, i dont know how many players they have lost but they were definately solid last year. For the person who asked, I dont know about Berkley or Cresent Valley but I'm on Seattle Academy and we only lost 1 senior from last year. Last year we played well until we lost our coach and then lost to Broomfield in the cross-over game. Our upset win against South was definately our best game of the weekend, so it will be fun to play them again this year for the first game. My predictions for the championship bracket are Northwest, Churchill, South, and Hale winning their pools and Lakeside, Seattle Academy, Alameda, and Cretin-Derham winning the cross-over games. Anyone else have any predictions?
Simon Montague
#9 Seattle Academy
Westerns should have some fairly good match-ups this year.. The Churchill/Lakeside match should be an interesting one. Churchill is older this year with a huge base of players to pick from. They, furthermore, play well as a team. It will be interesting to see who can get in the way of their flow. As for Crescent Valley if I remember correctly they graduated something like 6 of their starting 7 from last year. It'll also be interesting to see if their younger players step up. Hale was also young last year so we'll see if their seniors step up.
i don't go to hale, but hale is pretty money this year.
I think lakewood will beat cretin-durham. I have played against one team and watched the other.
who do people think is the best high school player?
umm thats a tough question.
In the west it would have to be one of the Northwest boys. Although Johnny Bloch and Daniel Force hold it down for Eugene. Obviously Seattle is the place where most of the talent lies. They have a lot of amazing unknown players. I would say Casey Ikeda is the best in the west right now.
here's another question...who are the best coaches in the country? (besides the obvious picks of tiina and bac).
when talking about eugene, the name Collin Smith for churchill, #3, MUST come up...
i think jacob jannon is one of the more dominant players. incredible field sense, speed, and an impressive verticle.
Jacob Janin of South Eugene is my pick for best Eugene player. Only a junior. He'll be the short one whizzing around with his defender several yards behind. Can't miss him.
-CKS, Churchill
Jacob Janin is a baller. But he doesnt compare to Casey at all. Jacob is only a junior so he should own next year. The senior class is amazing this year with players like Jeremy and Ben Vigus. Any other Juniors?
nws has no juniors just some ballin freshmen and sophmores
martin merz best player in the world
and on nws
no doubt in my mind the the Collin, Casey, and Jacob match ups will be spactacular....Johnny, Daniel, and Jeremy will be good match ups also. those six really hold the talent in the NW.
also jacob janin is amazing and he is not far behind casey when comparing the two.
Collin is not in the top six. He is amazing, but NW has players like Sam K.S., Ben Vigus, Mylo. It will be interesting to see the match ups. Maybe i'm just Crazy. Casey tosses Jacob btw.
colin can definately be in the arguement for the top 6, watch number 3 on churchill come westerns-he will ball it up, guarenteed
although i havent seen Collin play that much, it looks like he is a complete baller. My opinion is completely biased, but i would have to say that he would not be in the top six just due to the fact that i havent played with/against him much and that i have played with some nw kids alot and know their potential. We'll see come westerns though.
Jimmy Hooper
#2 Seattle Academy
This talk of who is the best is ridiculous. There is no way to compare east coast and west coast players. Even here on the west coast there have not been enough games to really say who is the best. It is fine to say who all are ballers but saying who is best is stupid. People play differently. Comparing a player like Casey (small, quick) to someone like John (tall, fast) is hard to do and there is a lack of experience to judge. Also comparing all these guys doesnt really get anyone anywhere.
What you can say is that Churchill is a team dominated by teamwork while South gets the bulk of its power from individuals. NWS is just a combination of the two.
lammme! let's keep talking about this. Posting on this blog never gets "anyone anywhere." It's a lot of fun though. Also I don't think I saw any post up there comparing players coast to coast, but maybe I missed that.
That's really good insight about NWS being a combo of churchill and south, but I think NWS does each component better. It's like south has john bloch and jacob janin but NWS has 4 john blochs and 3 jacob janins. No one can stop them when their offense gets fast and dishy, so they have that incredible teamwork mentioned. They also got a really badass theme song. What does this team not have?
On south, Ivan BW is extremely underrated. He is as fast as me, and can sky me from time to time now. He can huck both forehand and backhand well over full field, and his D is improving greatly. Watch out for the big Korean.
Johnny Bloch
#8
Axe Ultimate
Milo on NWS is also extremely underrated. He is as fast/maybe faster then Casey, and is huge on defense especially guarding handlers on dump cuts. Nigel on Hale is another strong player. Id say Jeremy is the best player overall, the entire offense flows through his throws.
Simon Montague
#9 Seattle Academy
Agreed milo is very much underated. On the west coast, besides the five northwest guys, jacob jannin is really good.
Ben Vigus is another NWS player that is amazing. Watch out for him at Westerns. He will sure sky some fools. the milo- jacob match up should be interesting. Milo is for sure faster... but i dunno about in the air and such.
In addition to Ben Vigus, Jeremy, Casey and Milo, don't forget Sam K-S. I saw Sam in an early tournament and he may be just as fast as Casey and Milo (and he is like 6'4" and can jump!) NOrthwest is scary deep in talent.
I think all five could have made junior worlds (only Jeremy and Casey made it) because not much separates them.
They have also played together for a long time. All five played as sophomores when the Seattle YCC team beat New England (Amherst) in the finals two years ago. They also beat Atlanta (Padeia) at this tournament.
I would pay money to see Padeia play Northwest this year!
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ I second that
same, i would have to go with NW though. Paidea sort of falls off after 5 players. I mean Stubbs, Grant, and Ollie cant play the whole game. NW has a lot of really good players besides the five drizzle guys.
Sam KS is damn good, but he is always hurt so he never really plays.
and a paideia nws game would be epic
i dont know Paidea is ranked like 38 in the college division and have only lost like 2 games to college teams. not to mention they took Paidea cup with ease. that would be a really fun game to see though.
jacob and collin will ball it up at westerns...no doubt
Dylan Freechild
chs ultimate
yeah paideia has beaten a lot of college teams, but so has nws, and look t the strenght of the ones nws has beaten, a lot better
Paidea has two players on Chain!@!! That is rediculous!! I think paidea will win.
back to westerns questions, does lakeside have a decent shot at beating chs? or do cherry creek or hopkins have a good shot at lakeside?
err lakeside does not have a chance at beating Churchill. Hopkins and Cherry Creek do not have a chance at beating lakeside. Paidea has two players on chain. two players. thats it. they drop off after the first 3. NWS has atleast 10 great players. NWS will beat paidea no question. Chain is not that good of a club team. Nothing like sockeye. Sockeye beat them 15-9, which in club ultimate, is a beating.
i wouldnt underate lakeside, despite being a young team they have some impressive tallent. watch out for julian, mac, and the monstrous chris piggot. another seattle team: SAAS can also be a foce, last year they beat south at westerns, and have only lost one or two players, watch for hooper, amazing plays follow this kid.
churchill is gonna dominate lakeside, churchill's line is all seinors-plus churchill is seeking some hardcore revenge after lakesides amazingly terrible calls that pretty much cost them the game, hopefully lakeside wont call 13 mark fouls and terrible travel calls, like last year. churchill is an all around better team that has better coaching and more desire to win it all.
Ummm... I hope that wasn't someone from Churchill that made that post above, I honestly don't think it was. It was definitely out of line. People don't need to talk smack like that.
Daniel Force
Churchill
Lakeside is going to be tough this year. As for SAAS, they have some amazing talent besides Jimmy hooper. Watch out for Michael Revelas and Simon Montague to tear it up. Should be a fun westerns.
Does anyone know how any of these teams play?
Lakewood or Cretin-Derham
man or zone?
flat or vert?
hucks or under?
etc....?
We played lakewood at the east invite a couple weeks ago and they were definitely really good. They have a couple handlers that can put it to their main receiver, Hylke, who is an absolutely sick athlete. They run a offset vertical stack and guys cut out of in and make h-stack like cuts. Definitely watch out for them because they can get really fired up and consequently hard to stop.
Axl
15
That Hylke on Axl action at the East invite was sick!!! Also, how can you say chain isn't that good of a club team?!?! They made it to the semi's!!! I am aware that northwest dominates open club (Furious/Sockeye), but 3/4 is a damn good place to get at nationals. If you think making it to the semi's at one of the most competitive tournaments in the world is bad you have very high expectations.
Hey does anybody know if Skymonster is playing on the Churchill team this year, he was pretty epic at Cold Fusion.
I briefly heard about the Lakeside Churchill game last year. Why is it hyped and what happened last year? Can someone summarize it and give the matchups?
lakeside won, 10-9
dude. watch lukes video, and decide yourself. dont bring it up here.
this isnt rsd.
Basically the Lakeside Churchill game from last year was a hotly contested game with a lot of questionable calls going both ways. Lakeside played the game they needed to, and pulled out a win. Luke's video is slightly Churchill biased (and by slightly, I mean entirely) and a little on the bitter side. Observers would have been handy in that game though
observers were present (Called over by lakesides coach) after one of churchills players called a ridiculous strip call right before half i believe. Luke Johnson is antagonizing lakeside by calling drew rownys fouls ticky tack and stuff like that. That was a unspirited and unsportsmanlike play on his part. Lakeside should have (and did) won that game.
I understand the bias of Luke but you are going a tad overboard. It seems obvious to me that you are fairly bias yourself ie calling the strip ridiculous. I am obviously going to be bias myself being a churchill player but looking at the strip call many times I think it could've gone either way. The churchill player obviously had control of the disc and then lost control when his arm hit a lakeside players leg on his way down. I do agree that calling drew's fouls "ticky-tack" is too much as he was simply playing strictly by the book but there were several other questionable calls made later on.
I'm pretty sure what was actually called was a foul, and luke was mistaken in saying it was a strip call. I also believe the argument was primarily that the the churchill player went up for the disc and got hit/bumped by a lakeside player in the air, causing him to fall and not be able to land on his feet.
Collin Smith
Churchill #3
last year is last year, let it go
show what you got on the fields this weekend
does anyone know how cretin derham plays?
the strip call was actually a foul call. dont ask how it got mixed up. also yes there were some horrible calls by both teams. but really when you watch that pick call the man who calls it, is A) not guarding the cutter and B) more than enough yards away, there is no way he had any play on the disc. but again there were many bad calls i just cant help but question that one...more than the others.
also it doesnt matter chs i think will beat lakeside(in a close game though)
i agree, last year does serve as some motivation though, but hopefuly this years game will be more spirited
shouldnt CHS win that matchup as it was such a closely contested game last year and Lakeside virtually graduated their entire team last year, Lakeside isnt nearly as strong this year without Gray and Drew right? Though they are supposed to have young talent but not this year
the foul call was the worst call i've ever seen. the churchill player clearly initiated the contact. CHS will win this year. Lakeside does still have a lot of talent and should be taken seriously. the pick call was a legit call. the defender was clearly picked if u watch the video.
WHO IS GOING TO WIN???
if you think the chs player initiated contact than your crazy. the pick may have been legit. i dont think so but it was hard to see. but still c'mon the foul call that ridiculous if you can't see that.
CHURCHILL over LAKESIDE 13-7 maybe 8
nahh who is going to WIN the whole thing?
Churchill obviously.
It'll be a close game with NWS.
hmmm i'm ganna have to go with nws, they are just so good and deep. it would be nice to see somebody else win but reality is nws will win. its be close though i do agree with that
NORTHWEST WILL CRUSH CHURCHILL. CASEY IKEDA, JEREMY NORDEN, BEN VIGUS, SAM K.S., MYLO SNYDER. how are you going to stop those guys?
NWS 15-CHS 10
NWS will DEFINATELY beat Churchill, but what about some of the non-west coast teams?
thaere is no doubt that northwest will beat churchill, i don't see how it could be a game, look at the matchups for the top 7 or so guys and everyone of northwests players will come out on top, if churchill scores 10 that would be an accomplishment.
NWS is going to win, there is no point debating it. The real question is who would win the CHS- Nathan Hale game. It sucks that they will most likely not play but it would be a sweet game.
Prediction=
NH 15 CHS 13
I agree that NWS will win but i wouldn't be so quick to say that they will dominate like you people are saying. At PLU Northwest beat churchill 12-7 and chs did not have 2 of their best 6 players. Also at Dirty Deeds, churchill beat Victoria by 6 and they beat NWS. NWS is a better team, and will win, but watch for it to be a tight one.
churchill played nathan hale last year in the consulation bracket and beat them 11-7. churchill lost one player last year and idk about nh but even if they didnt lose anybody theres no way one player will make up 4 points. also churchill has improved massively.not that nh hasnt idk. and for the post above i think they mean victoria beat nws after we beat victoria.
dylan freechild
chs ultimate #45
I think Victoria got some beast guys before their game against NWS that changed things up.
nws will pwn chs.
Victoria picked up Oscar Pottinger who plays for Furious.
keep in mind that last year, hale didn't have their best handler.
churchill- i'm from lakeside, and i know we have quite a past. our game at westerns is going to be a sick one, and we are all pumped for it. however, i'm hoping both teams can have a less angry game this year, as that would make the game a ton more enjoyable.
sam
lakeside is weak look at their seeding why are they being talked about? they have no stars
i can see lakeside going very far this weekend, seeding is low because they play in a tough region. they have several players who can dunk.
k cool, now youve pissed the lakeside team off. Good job, what was the point now you look like an idiot for talking actual smack on a blog. thats hella sick bud that makes you a g. I hope i meet you out on the field so we can see if your play backs up your cute words.
Peace bud,
Chris Pigott #15 Lakeside
well whoever posted shit about lakeside better be a fuckin baller and be able to back up their smack talk cuz Pigott is an amazing cutter and will destroy teams. As will Sam and Julian. Watch out for them this weekend, they are dangerous. Trust me, I play against them all the time.
Jimmy Hooper
#2 Seattle Academy
>>> At 5/10/2007 11:34 PM, Anonymous said...
lakeside is weak look at their seeding why are they being talked about? they have no stars
------------------------------------------------
If your going to talk at least have the balls to put your name on your post, come on. You obviously do not posses the talent to back it up.
Axl
15
yeah i agree with Axl.... atleast put your name. the lakeside-hopkins game is about to be intense. Who does Hopkins still have?
Jimmy Hooper
#2 Seattle Academy
A team isn't about having stars, nor does that dictate the overall ability of the team. I would much rather be on a team with no stars and where everyone is solid and recognition is shared than a team with a couple stars that have to carry the team. Star players on a team is great but their presence should never overshadow the team nor a lack of star players.
Lakeside is at Westerns for a reason.
Axl
15
i look forward to this weekend...
safe travels for all teams making the trek.
All the teams from Seattle are going to be major conteders they belong to one of the toughest divisions in the country. do not underestimate SAAS or Lakeside. SAAS just upset Nathan Hale last week 10-9 and beat South at Westerns last year. as for Lakeside they have great speed from Julian and hucks and grabs from Chris Pig... everyone should whatch out for the teams from Seattle.
The tournament was great and I would like to thank everyone who put it together. All the teams stepped it up a notch for the weekend it was really a new level of playing.
On another note, did anyone else see pigott's money hammer fakes this weekend?
i sure did.
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