The emails have been sent... Teams and programs have been given the word as to whether they've been awarded a bid or not...
And, now here is the list for those who will be going to the big show in Blaine, MN this coming August 11th & 12th.
3/19/07 - Teams Announced on UPA Website
Girls Division
BUDA High School Ultimate League - New England - HS
Denver Youth Summer League - Denver, CO - Youth/UPA
Disc Northwest Spring Youth Single Gender League - Seattle, WA - HS/UPA
Eugene, OR - at-large team
Madison Youth Spring League - Madison, WI - HS/UPA
Minnesota High School Ultimate League - Minneapolis, MN - HS/UPA
Pittsburgh High School Ultimate League - Pittsburgh, PA - HS/UPA
Youth Ultimate Cincinnati - Cincinnati, OH - HS/UPA
Mixed Division
Atlanta High School Ultimate League - HS
BUDA High School Ultimate League - New England - HS
Denver Youth Summer League - Denver, CO - Youth/UPA
Disc Northwest Spring Youth Single Gender League - Seattle, WA - HS/UPA
Minnesota High School Ultimate League - Minneapolis, MN - HS/UPA
New England Prep School Ultimate League - New England - HS
New York City High School Ultimate League - New York, NY - HS
Philadelphia High School Ultimate Educational League - Philadelphia, PA - HS
Open Division
BUDA High School Ultimate League - New England - HS
Denver Youth Summer League - Denver, CO - Youth/UPA
Disc Northwest Spring Youth Single Gender League - Seattle, WA - HS/UPA
Madison Youth Spring League - Madison, WI - HS/UPA
Minnesota High School Ultimate League - Minneapolis, MN - HS/UPA
New Jersey High School Ultimate League - New Jersey - HS
Pittsburgh High School Ultimate League - Pittsburgh, PA - HS/UPA
Youth Ultimate Cincinnati - Cincinnati, OH - HS/UPA
46 comments:
who got them???
who got them???
Minnesota received an Open, Girls, and Mixed (so I hear).
Pittsburgh received bids in Open and Girls.
The word is Philly did not receive an open bid.
i guess they cant defend their title then... thats kinda sad
So my question is what is the UPA going to tell those kids in Philadelphia who wanted to play and defend their title?
So apparently the number of teams playing who will be playing is 8. The UPA couldn't find in them to expand that number to accommodate more teams. Obviously feasibility is not the issue at hand. The issue as stated before somewhere is to encourage leagues to become sanctioned by the UPA. So by creating an incentive scheme for those leagues that are members to compete at such at events like YCC, it hopes to attract more youth leagues. Yet, it isn't an easy thing to become a sanctioned league. Granted, I do not know the process and my ignorance is not helping me here, but it isn't something that can be achieved over night.
As for the kids who want to play for their title, it isn't their fault their league isn't sanctioned. Sure, one can make the argument, that after this, Philly will def. work harder to become sanctioned because there will be outcry from the HS kids who wanted to play at YCC. And maybe this is what the UPA wants. But the bigger issue at hand is whether this is the right way to go about this. The people who decide whether to go forth and get the Philly league sanction obviously haven’t done so because they do not feel it is beneficial. The Philly HS league has been around for quite a long time, and has been run by some very qualified people.
So for the time being the kids in Philly are penalized. Is this a point in time when some adult will reply saying suck it up and get on with life? Perhaps someone may respond like that, but don’t worry, the kids in Philly are here to stay and play and love the game. It’s not that we think we are better than the rules and guidelines set forth, it’s just that to cap the number of teams at 8, until the UPA gets more leagues sanctioned is not what I feel is right. We all are members of the organization, pay our dues and just want to play the game. We won last year and we want a chance to defend our title.
I played last year for the team and loved every moment of it. Our coach worked hard to get us to win that title. We didn’t do anything wrong to not get a bid. Our league has expanded, more people in the league are UPA members, and more youth love this game.
From day one, in Ultimate we are taught this idea of spirit both on and off the field - to respect every one playing the game. To play with heart and passion, but at the same time never to disrespect the game or any players. Obviously one can take these guidelines and portray it to life, and in doing so, I think to each of the kids who wanted to play at YCC and can’t because of certain politics will realize that this spirit code was broken. Politics came in front of passion, which is in some ways analogous to winning rather than playing with spirit. We did nothing wrong, just that we weren’t deemed one of the 8 worthy teams based on some guidelines.
In retrospect, this all may mean nothing to anyone in the coming months or years. YCC will go on, and the UPA will continue to grow. I will probably forget about this as summer comes and summer league begins and I’m out there playing with my High school friends from other schools. But for the next month when I hear about the teams that made it, and their practices and how they are working hard and coming together as a bunch of kids from different High Schools to represent their area, I will feel devastated. I will feel helpless; I worked hard to help build my HS’s program, to go to Easterns and HS Nationals. I did what I could to teach kids to love this game, and yet, I couldn’t get the chance to defend the YCC title. I couldn’t represent my city and show the talent that we have here.
The UPA is what it is. It is a governing body that does what it feels is right. Sure there are people who feel differently than its mission, but in the end, the UPA does what it thinks is in the best interest of its members. Maybe, I missed a perspective that shows that what the UPA is doing is completely beneficial to the growing of the sport. And I hope if someone has some insight they will share. I mean no disrespect to anyone. I just wanted to share my thoughts. Thanks.
Seattle received 3 bids this year for Open, Girls, and Mixed.
i think the tourney is being held on august 11, 12 and not 4,5
The UPA is lame. They could have atleast gave a warning to all HS leagues maybe more than 2 weeks before the bids were due. Seems kinda like a grudge against Philly and Pennsbury to me
Philly at least got a mixed bid, or so i hear.
phillys winning mixed
I'm a little confused about the Philly thing. Isn't there a UPA Pennsylvania State championship?
If a bunch of Philly teams have UPA memberships for states why not just cobble together a UPA sanctioned league with the teams that have UPA members for state? And then the players from those teams are the ones eligible to make the YCC team. I must be missing somethng somewhere.
I remember reading something posted by Kyle (maybe someone else?) that said no UPA sanctioned leagues would be turned away from the YCC championship.
And I believe the YCC guidelines have always been posted. And understand this, there is no Youth Club Championship if the tournament does not help grow the sport. Otherwise it just turns into the adult club model that has serious growth limitations.
-Mike
Its just hard on the kids, cause we don't make the decisions on how our league is run. And the people who do, have our best interests in mind. So we listen to what they do, cause I guess they do know best.
That's an interesting point, Mike. Yes, Philly had nine teams that competed in the UPA state championship last year. Sure, we could have created a "league" with those nine teams and had it sanctioned by the UPA. But, if the league were UPA sanctioned, we would have to deny membership to teams that didn't have the cash to become members. That's not really what we want to do in Philly. We'd rather follow the spirit of the rules - to spread ultimate - than the letter of the rules - which is to make everyone become a UPA member. In retrospect, it really does stink that some kids are paying the price for a choice made by adults. I guess we would have been better off being more exclusive last year - or at least creating a redundant league structure. Oh well. Stinks for us.
-Rob
Oregon did not get a bid because of the league problem too. This really stinks for us because Oregon has such a strong class graduating this year (namely Churchill and South Eugene) and we really wanted to show that in Oregon's first appearance at YCC. Our Women got a bid though.
Daniel Force
Churchill
I hear Georgia did not receive a bid.
Your comments regarding "spirit of the rules" are confusing and are not really consistent with many Ultimate leagues work and succeed elsewhere in the country. Charging money to play ultimate isn't a bad thing...and teams are not deterred by it. In Pittsburgh, we have experienced exceptional growth, despite being "expensive". New players in PHUL this year were charged $45. In fact, you guys coulda done all of this for just $5 a player, and you would have been following the letter of the law, to my understanding. Do you really believe that $5 is going to stop a kid from playing?
Also, respoding to whoever posted that the UPA didn't inform people of these regulations - this is also false. They have been posted for years, and have been completely accessible to league and team organizers.
Rob,
If I were in your shoes I would create two Philly leagues one UPA sanctioned and one wide open to anyone including the UPA teams. You keep two sets of standings one for the UPA league and one for the all inclusive league. As teams get more organized and want to join in the state championships they can also join in the UPA sanctioned league so their players can be eligible for YCC. Not only that but once you have a sanctioned league you can tell those kids who pay for their UPA memberships that they are now getting two events (three for the teams at Easterns) for their UPA membership.
I don't believe the UPA would have a problem with this set up because they realize that it takes times for teams to get up to speed. And don't get the idea that I like the idea of every kid in a league paying a $20 UPA fee. I posted a little while ago about a youth affiliation program where an area pays the UPA a flat fee that gives UPA membership to everyone in their area. I don't know if it will work but it does move the discussion forward.
Good luck - Mike
You're going to have to explain to me how it could be done for $5, Dave. It's my uderstanding of the reading of the rules that a $5 one-time event fee does NOT count.
Furthermore, charging a lot of money DOES discourage kids from playing. I've got a close enough view to admire what Pittsburgh is doing, but I also spend enough time with kids to know that money matters. It appears as though you guys know that money matters, too. Why else would you go to all the work of having such an awesome scholarship program?
Finally, I see exactly what your saying, Mike - but two leagues is exactly what I meant by "redundant". Don't worry, we'll get that redundancy down next year.
-Rob
What I have heard so far is that Seattle, Minnesota, and Pittsburgh have all recieved open bids. And that Georgia, Philly, and Oregon did't.
So does anyone know who the rest of the bids were given to?
NJ got a bid for Open
By my recollection, youth membership is about $20. In what way is $20 to be UPA sanctioned "a lot of money," if you're wanting to send the same kids to YCC? It's expensive, trust me- as expensive as a two day tourney gets. Just sayin'.
just because the players in the league are members of the UPA doesnt mean the league is sanctioned. So to sanction the league it would cost the players more money, and knowing the average teenager, they wouldnt have it. In that its a lot of money.
Seems kinda silly to restrict the Open division to 8 teams when there is interest for more teams.
Years past, whenever there was a shortage of teams for Juniors Nationals, the UPA had to practically beg local teams to fill in for empty spots.
Here, there are teams (and their leagues, whether sanctioned or not) who are willing to make the effort to travel to Blaine from wherever. Don't turn them away.
I agree, in Chicago we have 24 teams in the youth league, over 300 participants that are minors, but since we are not UPA sanctioned we don't even bother to apply for a bid. Money is a very big issue for some kids that are living on federal assistance. If they raised the amount of teams that got accepted and possibly removed or changed the emphasis on UPA sanctioning I think it would be a lot more fair.
is it true that the 2008 junior worlds coaches are going to be at YCC scouting if so what is some info on that
As a member of the winning Philly open team in 2006, I must say i do feel robbed not to get a bid to defend our own title in '07. I can understand if the UPA wants to restrict the bids in some way to encourage growth, but i really dont see the value in turning away successful high school leagues, when there still should and could be way more. I dont see how they could be so determined to create youth club leagues, that they wouldnt expand the YCC tournament to accommodate more willing teams when they can. Just imagine how much more exciting and fun and meaningful the tournament would be if all of the great ultimate hubs around the country like Philly and Atlanta and Oregon could compete. That has got to be more beneficial than restricting team based on UPA affiliation.
Noah
It is absurd to think that any system turns away the defending national champions. I mean think about it, THEY ARE THE DEFENDING NATIONAL CHAMPIONS, too turn away Philly seems ridiculous. And it sounds like these other areas like Atlanta and Oregon and Chicago are being screwed over as well. So even though all of these people are coming on saying that the rules and regulations have been posted for years, maybe they need to make the message a little clearer, because obviously it is not getting through to some people. Now although there may not be an immediate solution, it seems like expanding the tournament would do NO harm, and would only make it more a more competitive, and more diverse experience for all the players who attend.
this is justin from Pennsbury and i competed in ycc last year and we won as everyone knows i am very disappointed that we didn't get a bid and i don't really get these rules and what not i'm just kind of sad and dishearten that i wont beable to have that fun again and compete agaisnt the highest lvl of ultimate beside jr. world... i dont really get it because we weren't sanctioned last year either.... but whatever i'm happy to see that we got a mix bid.... which again doesn't make sense to me... because we aren't sanctioned is mixed less important
thats a pretty good point...
???
This is indeed an unfortunate situation, but sometimes it takes these kinds of events to make everyone understand that they need to check the rules of UPA events.
I submitted a bid for Atlanta, and we too did not get our first choice bid (the open division) but were awarded a bid in the mixed division. We will be going.
While I am no longer on UPA staff, I did play a large part in developing the structure for the UPA YCC and so can explain some of the thinking behind it. None of what I say is "official" but it is informed.
UPA sanctioned youth leagues are the equivalent of UPA sectionals AND regionals for the college and club divsions. The UPA has introduced a different model for the Youth championships. In the club and college divsions in order to make it to Nationals a team must qualify through sectionals and regionals. In the youth division, for a team to qualify for the Youth Club Championships the players must participate in a UPA sanctioned youth league. The advantages in this structure are many:
1. This structure emphasizes participation over winning. Youth club leagues can be focused on creating evenly matched teams instead of the adult club division where teams are built from the beginning to go as far as possible - meaning that all of the best players in an area end up on the same team and often sectionals (and sometimes regionals) has unmatched teams playing.
2. This structure is scalable - meaning it can get bigger indefinitely. The sectionals/regionals structure is limited because a tournament can only fit so many teams. This, combined with the focus on building winning teams, are the biggest reasons why the club division has the slowest pace of growth. If Philly started a youth summer league and it were to grow to be large, it could split into an east Philly league and a west Philly league and continue to split as many times as necessary with each league eligible to send teams to the UPA YCC as long as it met the required size (I think 50 players in the league)
3. It is lower cost for players. The UPA requires all players at sectionals to be full UPA members ($20 for youth, $30 for college, $40 for club). Instead of this, for sanctioned leagues, players need only pay the one-time sanctioned event fee ($5 for youth)
4. It provides for more local control. Instead of the sectionals/regionals set-up where events are required on specific dates and in specific formats, the league based format allows leagues to develop in the way that they best see fit. The league can determine the time of year, the number of days, the number of teams, the number of games each team gets, etc. In addition, leagues can determine the criteria for selecting the team as they see fit. Leagues can choose the best players who are also spirited, a representative from each league or HS team, or use whatever criteria they think will help their league the most.
The UPA does not (and should not) simply run events that simply take everyone, or just the best teams that apply - that can be done by many TDs or organizations (look at ECC, Paideia Cup, Amherst Invite, or College Centex). The question isn't whether the UPA should have a formal qualifying structure that incentives membership in the organization, but how that structure should be set-up and implemented. The UPA's role in the sport is to help support and grow the sport by creating and incentivizing structure for people to play. That is what makes the UPA so good for Ultimate and what makes winning a UPA championship so special.
All of that being said, the YCC is still an experimental event (it will almost certainly stick around, but the rules can and will be tweaked). This is the first year where the rules of selecting teams are coming into play. If you feel that the event could have a better team selection process, you should let the UPA know by contacting them.
As for Rob's comments about creating redundant organization, it doesn't have to be that way. The way the UPA would like to see it is that organizations set up a club league (non school based) outside of the high school season that is UPA sanctioned. Denver has such a league in the summer. Here in Atlanta we are going to run a UPA sanctioned league in the fall. This will allow players to play with other players that they normally play against in the high school season and build the community here in the city. These leagues don't need to be big - your sanctioned league could just have 4 15 person teams (60 people) and qualify your league for a bid at the YCC.
As for the question about why some teams received a mixed bid even if their league wasn't sanctioned (what happened in Philly and Atlanta) the bid allocation structure is set-up to give UPA sanctioned club leagues the first choice of bids after that, UPA sanctioned high school leagues and then non-up sanctioned leagues until the event fills up. So Philly and Atlanta did not receive their top choices (open) because those were all taken by leagues with higher picks. When it came time for Philly and Atlanta to pick, mixed, their second choices were available.
With Atlanta and Philly, it looks like the mixed might the division to watch this summer in Blaine.
Kyle wrote:
"3. It is lower cost for players. The UPA requires all players at sectionals to be full UPA members ($20 for youth, $30 for college, $40 for club). Instead of this, for sanctioned leagues, players need only pay the one-time sanctioned event fee ($5 for youth)"
That is awesome. This is the first time that I've seen this clearly communicated, and is obviously what Dave was referring to earlier.
There hasn't been much published that communicated this option so clearly (most published info makes it seem as though $5 fee is for one-day or one-weekend events). I'm glad to have it cleared up.
Thanks Kyle,
-Rob
p.s. - I'm glad to read that Atlanta has a mixed bid, too. That'll certainly make things a lot more interesting!
are there gonna be tryouts for philly mixed? or are only the guys that attended last years ycc gonna be allowed to go?
I'm sure Rob will hold fully open tryouts for anyone interested -- obviously the guys that made last year's team and are returning will be the favourites to take the first few spots, but the non-Pennsbury kids mostly are too old, so there will certainly be spots. Plus, I trust Rob to field the best team, and not play favourites.
Vermont (www.vyul.org) was awarded a bid in the mixed division.
YCC last year was the best ultimate experience I have had in my career which includes a trip to nationals in Oregon my freshman year. Wissahickon is having a bit of a down year so I have been looking towards this years tournament as my last chance to play highly competitive high school ultimate. I must admit I feel slighted that Philly did not receive a bid and can’t help but think in such a bias system that talks of our bad spirit might have skewed the decision to not allow us in the open tournament. I suppose it is just an unfortunate circumstance but upsetting to those of us that have been talking about the next YCC tournament since July 31 2006.
Plunkett
Wissahickon Captain
YCC Philly Open 2006
Plunkett,
The bids were awarded based on the objective process described here: http://www.upa.org/programs/youthdev/comp_guidelines#YCCSel so no "bias" could have played into the selection of the teams.
Rob,
The information about one-time event fees being available for sanctioned events is at: http://www.upa.org/outreach/sanctioning/guidelines#DF. Yeah, I know there's a lot of information that players, particularly organizers need to know that's on the UPA website and it's not always easy to find the information that you are looking for - but it is mostly likely out there somewhere. That information can be found by clicking on "Sanctioning" and then "Sanctioning Guidelines." With that much information it can be hard to organize it on a website so that it is most convenient to users. Any suggestions on how to better organize it would be appreciated and can be directed to anybody at the UPA.
-Kyle
pwned
Next question:
Seeing as how coaches will be obligated to be level 1 certified starting next year, and level 1 certification is only good for 2 years, does that mean that coaches who became certifed in 2003, 2004, or 2005 will have to attend another certification session in order to coach a team at a championship event in 2008?
-Rob
On a totally unrelated note - do kids today still type L337? Sheesh. I thought that would've gone the way of the hula-hoop by now. Thanks for the trip in the way-back machine!
Rob,
No, there is a recertification process: http://www.upa.org/coaches/recertification
How you can find this from the homepage: click on "Coach and Volunteer Certification" and then click on "Recertification."
Here's the deal, that's the last "easy" question I'll answer about UPA information. While it's important that the UPA admin and reps are accesible for questions and clarifications we also have other things that we do need to be doing and we do put the information out there on the website so players and organizers can find it themselves. With 25,000 members, the more members take it upon themselves to find the answers to questions, the more UPA admin can spend time on programs that advance the sport. As I said earlier, if you feel the website can be better organized, please let anyone with the UPA know.
-Kyle
Hey everyone,
Let me just add to that last comment by Kyle and say that asking questions of UPA staff is something players don't take advantage of as much as they could/should. For example, had anyone in Philly (only b/c they seem to be the relevant example in this thread) asked anyone at UPA HQ about the YCC selection or league sactioning process, they would have found out everything they needed to know (and probably more) about things like $5 one-time fees and explanations of the selection process.
Most, if not all, of this info is available on the UPA website, as Kyle says. But if you can't find something, or you don't understand something, ask someone who works for the UPA. And that doesn't mean through a non-UPA blog, RSD, etc. Those are great for discussion, opinions, and ideas. But we don't check these like we check our phones and emails, and we don't use them disseminate official info. If you want info about the NUTC camp, you ask the NUTC staff or check the NUTC website. If you want info about a UPA event...
So, for the best information about UPA events, emails and phone numbers (toll free!) are available on the UPA website that will get you directly in touch with UPA staff, who are in the office every day M-F (and usually more). We love to help people get information and understand processes. I just had a great phone conversation with a Philly organizer last week. I think we both wish that converation had happened a year ago...
It's our job (and our passion) to help people play Ultimate, and to help people understand the big picture of why things are set up the way they are. The staff and the Board want to hear from you, and want you to know what's going on. We do our best to make info and ourselves available for those willing to seek it/us out.
Thanks, Will Deaver
UPA Championship Director
Madison got a bid.
Seattle, New England, Colorado, send your best men and women to the mixed division. It's going to be where the best competition is possible.
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