Tuesday, October 31, 2006

Impact of High School on Club Nationals (Open)

Even though crusty old rsd addicts continue to loathe any poor new player who dares to post to the boards about high school ultimate the effect of the younger players on the sport is undeniable. Let's take for example the two of the semifinalists in the open division (Johnny Bravo and Seattle Sockeye), look at the rosters and see how many played competitive high school ultimate.

In my mind it is slowly becoming essential for club teams to recruit and maintain talented younger players from their area, and you'll notice that the succesful teams incorporate and involve developing players in their programs and allow them to develop into major parts of the machine.

Now im not saying that it is impossible to win without players who formerly or currently play(ed) in high school, but i think it will become apparent in the next 4-6 years (or less) that high school ultimate has a major major impact on the club scene in the USA.

Anyway, to the rosters...

Sockeye
Location: Seattle, WA

Roster
No. HS
Name Height
00 *
Ryan Seguine 5’10’’
1 *
Jimmy Chu 6’0’’
2
Roger Crafts 5’10’’
3
Blaine Robbins 6’3’’
5
Ben Wiggins 5’10’’
6 *
Danny Trytiak 5’8’’
7 *
Chase Sparling-Beckley 6’4’’
8
Seth Crockford 5’10’’
9 *
Sam O’Brien 5’10’’
10 *
Moses Rifkin 6’2’’
13
Matt Sewell 5’9’’
14 *
Sam Chatterton-Kirchmeier 6’2’’
16
Thomas Sebby 6’4’’
17 *
Jeremy Cram 6’0’’
20
Mike Caldwell 6’2’’
21 *
Dave Bestock 6’0’’
22
Mark Stone 6’1’’
23
Andrew Fleming 5’11’’
24 *
Alex Nord 6’4’’
27
Ryan Winkelmann 5’9’’
34
Will Henry 5’8’’
56
Mike Jaeger 5’11’’
44
Jaime Arambula 5’5’’
99 *
Ray Illian 6’2’’

Johnny Bravo
Location: Boulder, CO
Roster
No. HS
Name Height
1 *
Kyle Weisbrod 5'9"
2
Wilmer Wilson 5'11"
3
Will Deaver 5'8"
4 *
Colin Gottlieb 5'9"
7 *
Hector Valdivia 5'11"
9 *
Steven Rouisse 5'11"
10 *
Adam Simon 5'11"
11
Brett Kolinek 5'10"
12
Forrest Collins 5'11"
13
David Street 6'4"
16
Ryan Farrell 5'9"
19
Parker Krug 5'11"
20
Josh Ackley 5'10"
22
Matty Lipscomb 5'10"
25 *
Justin Salvia 5'8"
28
Martin Cochran 6'2"
38
Andrew Mangan 6'2”
50
Beau Kittredge 6'2"
60 *
Jolian Dahl 6'1"
77
William Brotman 5'8"
84
Adam Zwickl 5'10"
89
Mitch Schminke 6'1"
15 *
Teddy Tripoli 5'9"

this information was compiled from personal knowledge, various posts on RSD, and will be updated in accordance with your comments - if you have any further information please post it.

14 comments:

McCabe said...

note of clarification, im sure if you look closely at other rosters you will find further support for this theory, but i figured that two of the better teams at nationals were enough to show the correlation.

also, further clarification the * means they played in high school or middle school.

Ryan said...

Chain Lightning is a big recipient of Paideia players too.

B. Hizzle said...

Hey McCabe, nice work.

For Sockeye, also put asterisks next to Moses Rifkin (Paideia alum, '96 juniors worlds team)) and Sam O'Brien (some Minnesota high school alum, '98 juniors worlds team).

Also, Sockeye used to feature Phil Burkhardt (another Seattle juniors product) and Bravo once had (or still has) Ben Bronson (BC High School alum) playing for them.

Anonymous said...

I think that Paideia Alums = Good Club Teams is a better correlation than just HS/MS players.

# of Paideia players in Open Semis = 10 (1 on Sockeye, 6 on Chain, 3 on Bravo).

Let's get more Paideias.

Anonymous said...

It's important to note that many Sockeye players (Chase, Dave, Roger, Sam, Wink, Ben, Alex) do coach or have recently coached various MS/HS programs

Lukester said...

that is a huge point made. The fact that some of the best players of the game are working with the youngest generation is something that other areas need to consider not just cause it will make their teams better, but because it is the right thing to do.

Spring Reign this last year had a ton of MS teams. I watched Chase and Sammy CK walk around and spend time with Middle School students. They would encourage and show them how to throw. It was inspiring to see.

Portland and Eugene would be at such a different place if they would have adopted what Seattle is doing right now in the MS and HS programs back when Eugene used to be such a center of ultimate. Unfortunately, for what ever reasons, the Darkstar program of Oregon never really embraced and developed youth ultimate. Just think if the current Rhino team would invest time into the younger generation. From conversations with a few Rhino players, it isn't a lack of wanting to on their part, it just that there isn't the systems and venues yet developed to have it take place. This year should be a bit different and we hope to have a MS and HS clinic run and developed by Rhino an Ego players.

Props to Seattle for what it is doing not just with its' elite players, but with the dedication of those coaches like Mike Mullens who has built and maintains the best program in the country (at least in my opinion).

McCabe said...

it is definitely a huge point that they are coaching or have coached programs, and i would bet long term, whether this is the intent or not, when these current guys retire some of the players they had coached over the years will be the next stars of sockeye.

now im not saying that this is the intent of those guys, i would wager that it is more for the sheer joy of teaching and playing the sport with people who have just been introduced to it, but whether intended or not, sockeye will benefit from the involvement in community.

its an awesome thing.

Anonymous said...

I think the point about the effect of more youth ultimate on club teams is even stronger than you're making it out to be. Yes, many of these elite club players did play competitive HS ultimate. What is really scary is what was considered "competitive" HS ultimate when these guys were coming up is not even close to the level of what we're seeing today. Sure the star players have always been there, but the increase in teams filled with high-quality players will give these club teams an amazing pool of talent the ultimate world will welcome with open arms.

fruggiedesh said...

The reason why Mike's NWS program has been so successful follows the same argument in this thread. Year after year, NWS has 6+ middle school teams, often with upwards of 100 kids participating. Northwest doesn't have the biggest student population or talent pool, but the percentage of participation has to be among the highest anywhere. By the time these kids get to highschool, they have nearly all played for three years. It's no coincedence that all those Sockeye players mentioned as youth coaches either played at NWS, coach/ed at NWS or were coached by a current NWS coach (Joe Biz).

Lukester said...

i'm not sure Mike's take on this, but my guess is that having a program be Varsity Status puts them into a completely different place than most other HS (and MS) programs who struggle to get their administrations to acknowledge their existance.

are there any other places that have Ultimate recognized as a varsity sport? i would be curious if there are any public HS that have been able to elevate their legitimacy. At Churchill HS we moved from a tier 4 sport to a tier 2 (same level as Oregon Lacross) and one below varisty sports recognized by the state. From what I've been told by our athletic director is that for a public HS to have any new sport enter into the varsity status it must among a few thousand other things have at least 40 other programs up and established in the state... We have 16 High Schools in Oregon currently running an ultimate program of some sort.

Anonymous said...

Speaking of the Northwest School I noticed several NWS players are on Seattle Moho. Is seatle moho based out of the northwest school? What is Moho exactly?

Ryan said...

Watchung Hills in NJ is a varsity activity ... Amherst and paideia have it as a varsity sport ... NMH too I think.

Moho is a youth club team of Seattle players, guys and girls, that travels to tournaments around the country. They used to come to the Amherst Invite and NMH but haven't recently, probably because the rules regarding youth clubs changed, not letting them play at Nationals or Westerns.

fruggiedesh said...

Not to dilute this thread with MoHo talk, but the NWS represenation fluctuates. Judging loosely from the Cold Fusion pics, only three NWS players were there (Casey Ikeda, and the brothers MacPhee), leaving out most of their top players.

Bobby Jones 2.0 said...

Uh, Ray Illian didn't play juniors. He learned how to be amazing at UW. But he is a home grown talent in the sense that he is from Seattle, went to UW and played some local pickup with his dad before he went to college.

Many of the players on this list were not major components of their club teams until after they finished college. In the NW at least, we're starting to see players leap from High School with a club ready game without college experience (or minimal college experience). Sam Harkness, Ayron and Nate Castine all made it to the last round of Sockeye cuts this year without playing a single point of college ultimate. Breeze, Dusty and Eli Jannen were big parts of the Rhino attack and have many more years at OU before they finish up. Furious also has a dude that contributed straight out of high school and I believe that Chain has a couple high school players on their team as well.