Hello, PlayUltimate.
Many of the contributors to this site have a lot of experience in the game. They’ve played on elite club or co-ed teams of their own; they’ve coached top-level juniors teams; they’ve been playing the game since I was a gleam in my daddy’s eye, etc., etc. So, I feel some trepidation as I make my first post here at PlayUltimate.
I do, however, seem to share at least one important characteristic with the other contributors of this site—a deep-seated love of this game called ultimate.For what it is, for what it does, I love this sport. Accordingly, I dedicate some of my time and energy to helping advocate it at the juniors level, where it’s most logical to do so in my case (I’m a high school teacher). That’s enough about me.I’ll try to keep all such self-conscious apologies out of future postings. This post does have a point, I promise . . . wait for it . . . wait for it . . .
Tryouts. I only started our program at FHC last year, this year will be our second. I’ve been working hard during the off-season, recruiting, building buzz, as have the remaining players from last year’s team; however, I think we may have done TOO good a job! What with the posters, flyers, word of mouth, luchtime publicity, video, announcements and all, it’s looking like we’ll have the luxurious curse of running tryouts in this, our second, year of existance.
So, my question is this. What are some of the different models out there for effectively and fairly selecting/rejecting athletes. Combines? Wholistic? Ultimatetalk just did a short thread on this topic, but I suspect that there are reasons why a juniors tryout should look different from a club tryout. But maybe not. For any other teams out there like mine, who are just making the move from “scraping together enough players for a scrimmage” to a tryout situation, what did your FIRST year of tryouts look like? Did they work? Horror stories? What do the top teams in the nation do?
HOW do you hold tryouts?
8 comments:
Do you actually have to turn kids away from playing or will you be able to have a b team? Because that way it makes tryouts alot easier. They still have a place to go afterwards to get better so maybe next year they can make the A team.
I found most kids understand who will make the A team and who will make the B team and they dont take it personally. So you dont have to worry to much about cutting kids from the a team. There are exceptions...but I said most.
And especially for the kids that are right on the line of making A but are on B that might get frusterated. You can tell them they will be big leaders and huge role players for the B team. How they can push the others to get better/work harder and then next year s/he'll probably make A.
we had the same deal at prep between our first and second seasons, but from the beginning it was my policy to never cut someone who wanted to play for the team.
it got to the point where in our fourth season (second spring) where we had around 30 players on one team.
granted there were many who were not as involved or dedicated as others. but at any given game or practice id say we had a consistent 25+ players.
a few reasons why i think a large roster is a good idea.
1. you most likely will always have enough to schrimmage at practices with full teams.
2. the possibilities for b-teams are very real, the problem however often is, is that those who are energetic and enthusiastic enough to run things are the ones usually that want to play on the a-team
3. down the road your team has a better chance of surviving when the original founders leave because you quite simply have more players to draw from. this year the team has around 23ish players im told, after having graduated a significant number of seniors.
so all in all, more people = more good for team.
back on topic though - first year of tryouts.
we held "tryouts" without explaining to everyone that there would be no cuts. because often times laziness can overtake etc, when people know there is no risk of them being cut.
so we ran 3 days of "tryouts" with 30 or so guys expecting there to be cuts. this translated to better listening skills expemplified when explaining things, and people running that extra little bit faster.
main program consisted of
1. run to the fields (1.5 mi)
2. stretch
3. throwing in pairs
4. simple throwing catching drills
5. more advanced offensive/defensive drills
6. explanation of some of the general themes in ultimate etc
7. schrimmage
8. stretch
9. run home
when running those tryouts though, i think perhaps there is an easy tendency to put to much emphasis on who can throw well etc. over time it seems that the smart money would be to focus more on who has the athletic talent persay? idk how to phrase it, but hopefully you catch my drift.
in my opinion though, any player can at the high school level can be molded into a decent contributing factor if not significantly more.
I do agree with the sentiment behind the "cut no players" stance, and a b-team is a perfect way to create a competitive roster and also bring the maximum number of kids into the sport. Running this b-team, though, isn't practical for our squad right now b/c of logistics. For now, maybe I'll just allow the team to grow--we'll see how many show up to that first practice.
I'm surprised, though. Is there no one out there who believes holding tryouts and selecting superior athletes (whether in terms of skill or general athleticism) is a good way to build a more competitive program? Sure, it's exclusive, maybe even off-putting to the less-athletic, but doesn't moving to an exclusive, tryout system send the message to more dedicated athletes who currently play the more established sports that ultimate is, indeed, a competitive, demanding sport, worthy of their curiosity?
I know that ultimate is special, and being young and special, we don't HAVE to build our sport on the same foundations of the more established sports--but isn't there something to be said in using them as a model?
AND, since our league is pay-to-play, I'd feel a little unfair if I kept a roster of 30+, only 3/4 of which saw any serious playing time in games.
My guess is that those of you who advised against tryouts live in a community/go to a school where it's already understood that competitive ultimate is a physically demanding sport, and, thus, the kids you get coming out are generally in fairly good shape already. This is not the case in my school/community, where mostly church youth-groups play ultimate as a feel-good, happy, friendly, we-are-all-God's-children form of entertainment.
Maybe that's what I'd really like to know. How do you go about changing people's perceptions about ultimate? How do you help people in your school/community to see it as a legitimate competitive sport?
Whatever you do, I would wait at least a few practices before you do any kind of tryout. Just because 30+ people show up the first day doesn't mean they are going to be there next week. Expect many (especially those that don't realize you actually have to run to play ultimate) to drop out by themselves.
If you're really interested in having a team that can compete at a high level, then yes you will need to have tryouts/cuts. It's no good trying to come back in close game and having to squeeze some newbs in for playing time. However consider that high school is one of the best places to breed ultimate, and cutting everyone who doesn't immediately show skills is pretty harsh. Saying "sorry, you weren't good enough, try back next year" can really crush a kid's spirit. Do you think that player will come back next year, or will be disheartened to ultimate? I would strongly consider trying to have SOME kind of B team, even if it means they are "non-official" and run their own practices.
Though I have to say, in response to myself, that letting it be known ahead of times that these are tryouts, and there will be cuts BEFORE you start practicing will cut down on those who come out without any dedication, and those who do come out will be slightly less hurt by being cuts. So just ignore my entire first paragraph I guess...
to anonymous - on both points i think you are correct and this is what i advise doing, and is what we did. we basically said, we wont cut you. but its not going to be easy, so basically the only person who can cut you is yourself.
whoever works hard, and wants to improve will get playing time. and as a result those who do work hard will get better and the playing time issue wont really be an issue.
in response to jason's second comments -
i do agree that competitive cuts are good, but i think it all depends on how established your team is. most teams in the US are within their first 5 seasons, a very vulnerable time for the teams because they are still running with their original founding members. of course every instance is completely different, but i would say somewhere after the first couple years if the program is obviously established and maintained then a move to more competitive tryouts seems logical.
the problem with legitimacy in high school is that most people see the teams when they first start as fads. started usually by groups of friends rather than school admins, its hard to gain that legitimacy.
for some time though i personally have advocated an approach of a "loud presence" within the school, highly advertised team functions etc. we did service projects as a team as well to help gain good graces of admin.
but id say like most things the legitimacy aspect is more an issue of time than anything else.
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