The discussion that has been going on in the last post, has gotten me thinking a bit visually. Whether it is productive or even useful, I know that I often get to thinking a few years down the road and what will the HS Ultimate Championships look like?
And for those thinking way in the future... What if we kept dividing before going to a State Tournament Model? What if the model looked more like Club division? Or maybe this is something where the emerging division of juniors ultimate could go... In other words, what if YCC eventually grew so large that there were too many teams requesting bids? Would we need to have some sort of regional tournament that would decide bids to a nationals? This could be interesting...
Thursday, December 06, 2007
what the future could look like?
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35 comments:
i like this idea. do it UPA.
what are some good teams in the centrals?
this is a horrible idea, there arent a lot of good teams in the central region and there arent enough teams have a central nationals by next year. Eventually the same team will win it every year and it will get boring. Ultimate thrives on the coast, and easterns and westerns is a great oppurtunity for kids to travel and improve due to competition.
To clarify, I don't think there's anyway that Centrals could happen in 2009. Perhaps 2010 or 2011, but a lot will depend on what happens this year in terms of applications.
As for YCC, the vision for that event is to have very large divisions (as much as 64 teams/division) and one of the big reasons that Blaine was chosen (apart from being Central and having a great host organization) is that it could fit a tournament like that. So it'll probably be a long time before qualifiers for YCC are necessary (beyond the league qualification rules)
a problem for 2011...for the Northwest Championship, that would be washington, oregon, idaho, wyoming and montana. so really, it would be the teams from seattle playing the teams from eugene. a satisfying end to a season? I don't think so...That happens frequently anyways.
i like the sentiment behind the localization, but i would desperately encourage you to make regional tournaments qualifiers for a true nationals. having played elite high school ultimate i can tell you that by far the best part of the year, what we trained for and what we most enjoyed, was getting to play on a semi-national level. there just isn't anywhere near as much glory or fun in a 6 way national champion tie.
so by all means, localize it, get more teams involved, grow the sport, but let high school teams (distinct from ycc teams, which carry a different vibe altogether) compete for the national title.
Anon 1:05, the point is that nationals IS dead, and localization IS happening. Look at nearly any other high school sport: basketball, football, soccer... they ALL end at state championships. That's how it goes, high schools can't afford to keep flying kids places.
Granted, we're nowhere near the point that each state has enough teams to make this viable (PA might be the only state to actually turn teams away to make a 16-team field at States), but the goal is to get there.
Nationals was nice, but it's past.
the goal is to have ultimate be competitive enough to have state championships that mean something...but it might be nice to go with a club/college qualifying style, as high school grows and gets to that point
there are still nationals for high school stuff (I know there is for cross country, and I think there is for basketball). I think a regional setup would be good in the future (a couple years, when talent is more spread out), where each region gets a certain amount of bids to go to nationals, and I think nationals for high school should be at the same place that nationals for college is. Also, why is everyone ganging up on the central? Minnesota, and Madison both have had top placing teams at easterns/westerns a few years ago, Chicago is on the rise (28 high school teams registered for the youth league this year (none of them are any good this year, they will be some day)), there are teams in Ohio, Missouri, and one from Lexington.
What about Canada? Where do teams from the great white north fit into this map? There are some excellent youth programs in Canada. I wish that more of them competed in the UPA Championship events.
What good Canadian teams are there this year..........I heard Canada got rocked at Hold Back the Snow by Staters
The Wisconsin Hodags are now selling team jerseys and shorts to the public. Check out www.hodags.org for more information. Good luck to all teams competing in High School Easterns and Westerns this year.
whos the best team?
in the east: 1) Paideia 2) Amherst 3) North Hills 4) LC Bird 5) Pennsbury 6) John Jay 7) YHB 8) Beacon 9) Long Meadow 10) Columbia
When is paideia cup?
-Jamie
I would put Columbia at like number three...who from the west
Columbia at number 3 you have to be joking they have only won two tournaments and did just as well against pennsbury at fall brawl as pennsbury did against them at RU. I would say Pennsbury is number three North hills four LC bird five Columbia might get my sixth place vote.
Jake
1) Northwest
2) Hopkins
3) Churchall
4) Casteral Valley
who are the standout players for each team?
paideia first? who do they have? I think columbia 1st
people cant be judging from last year's results, they need to start making their guesses based on how many people left the team
for instance, Paideia (while good all around) lost their 3 stars
Amherst didn't have a strong year last year so they should hopefully come back with a vengeance
North Hills didn't graduate anyone so they can only get better
Pennsbury lost some a good amount of their team but as seen at fall tournaments can compete with the best still
Columbia-sorry I don't know much about Columbia except they always seem strong and I believe lost few if any
Amherst didn't have a strong year for Amherst. Coming second at Easterns (and being, probably, the third best team in the east) would have been quite an accomplishment for any other program.
"1) Paideia 2) Amherst 3) North Hills 4) LC Bird 5) Pennsbury 6) John Jay 7) YHB 8) Beacon 9) Long Meadow 10) Columbia"
This is ridiculous. Of the teams that made semis at Eastern's last year, Columbia has lost the fewest players. Columbia has already beat Beacon three times and John Jay once in the fall. YHB lost to Beacon at a tournament that Columbia won. LC Bird lost to Woodside Highschool X at Tidewater TuneUp.
I'm not one of the people who are against speculation and trashtalk on playultimate, but at least make it reasonable. I would have to say Paideia, Amherst, Columbia, and North Hills are in the upper tier this year, with Pennsbury a cut below them and no other team anywhere in sight. We'll know after Paideia Cup how those upper teams stack up.
"in the east: 1) Paideia 2) Amherst 3) North Hills 4) LC Bird 5) Pennsbury 6) John Jay 7) YHB 8) Beacon 9) Long Meadow 10) Columbia"
Whoever posted this needs to stop talking. LC Bird, saw them play, not that good. They lost to a YHB team at Tidewater in the QUARTERS. John Jay Beacon and Long Meadow are nowhere in the top 10 of high school ultimate teams on the East Coast. Let me fix this for you.
I cant tell you what the order will be, but the top five teams on the East will consist of:
Paideia
North Hills
Pennsbury
Amherst
Columbia
In no particular order, these 5 teams are so far ahead of the competition on the East its laughable, they will all beat each other up and roll anyone else who steps in front of them. Its like the Fab Five.
ps stop hating on columbia they have the best player on the coast and are extremely well coached.
"Amherst didn't have a strong year for Amherst. Coming second at Easterns (and being, probably, the third best team in the east) would have been quite an accomplishment for any other program."
not good enough for Amherst, I do not want to bring up old memories but the entire team seemed pretty upset that they weren't playing Paideia at the Paideia Cup Finals last year(upset enough to heckle, and I believe I recall Tina Booth mentioning that it was a week year for them.
Second place at Easterns is great and it shows they were still top-notch but not up to the "Undefeatable Amherst" standards
Best player on the coast? Who would that be? I would think they would need the best team, not the best player. How many kids did they lose from last year?
I think Columbia lost about 3 or 4 players from last year. I find it interesting that people are maintaining that last year was a down year for Amherst; it's possible that I don't know enough about the youth league's past. Did Amherst dominate from 2003-2006 or did it start before that?
Both Beacon and John Jay came from nothing (John Jay especially) and worked their asses off to become good teams this year and I think that they will only get better come Spring time. Will they both be top 10? Hard to say. Top 20? Definitely.
As far as LC Bird... they are trash. Whoever you are who keeps lauding them- you're not convincing anyone, you're just embarrassing yourself.
Amherst formerly never lost a game to a high school team and had been considered unbeatable even taking on Lady Godiva at the height of their ultimate career and crushing them
they are still a feared team and it shows when you play the first 4 points and finally realize, "I'm playing Amherst, and they're just another team, an incredibly good team, but just another team"
but since their losses to Needham and North Hills (both relatively unknown compared to Amherst) and eventually to Pennsbury in the finals, it was considered and off-year for them
when it comes to westerns, this year will be the first year that there will be a real question as to who will be the best team. Northwest will remain a top team but after losing 2/3'ds of their varsity team they will not be an unstoppable force. lakeside and saas both come with returning teams losing only a couple players. hopkins has a very large program and it seems will be rebounding off of an off year. the oregon teams will like northwest have lost a large senior class so they will likely take a drop that could be heightened by churchills loss of a coach and south losing what were the definite leaders on their team. this westerns will probably look very similar to last years easterns with many close games and a final that goes down to the wire.
As for predictions i believe that NWS will lose a high school game for the first time since Nationals 04 and they, lakeside, and saas will have many very close games both in league, state and westerns tournaments. i would still predict nws coming out on top in the end simply because they have the experience in winning and will have a more balanced talent pool than saas or lakeside and i dont really know about hopkins.
standout players that i know of include Jacob Janin (S. Eugene) Jimmy Hooper (saas) Julian C-W (lakeside) and Austin Killian NWS.
any talk about who the worst team in the country is gonna be this year? East? West?...it looks like its gonna be a more competitive field than last year
standouts for Hopkins would be Greg Arenson.....
"Best player on the coast? Who would that be? I would think they would need the best team, not the best player. How many kids did they lose from last year?"
Columbia didnt lose much. And the best player on the coast is Zander Padgett, he is a senior this year and he will dominate. The next best players in his region are Thorne Saul Funk so you know he has some good competition
Did anyone else notice that the upa has the east coast tryouts on easter weekend? Why on earth would they have it then?
Jake
It also poses problems for those college freshmen whose teams are playing at Stanford Invite and Centex on those two weekends.
wow its gonna be an exciting spring season no doubt.
Does anyone know how to contact the UPA with questions? Because I was just wondering why for Easterns/Westerns/YCC you need to select your team's spirit winner before the tournament starts. Wouldn't it make more sense to have captains or coaches notify the tournament directors on say, saturday afternoon? or sunday before the finals?
Alright so lets speak the truf...all these ranks are so humerous to me. who would even think of placing columbia in double digits. LETS BE TRICE they have a big strong legacy,expeirienced players, and awesome coaching wich easily with no doubt puts them in top 5. I'm also so tired of hearing about this long curly pigtailed haired kids that are nowhere near up to par with the top teams in the east. They claim to have a new offence that is unstoppale but anyone who knows ultimate knows that you slap a cup on that bitch and there cake. To continue with the hilarious ranking YHB!? no where near the same strong team they had last year. this year its a new upcoming of softys that got shut out 15-0 in the semi's vs. pennsbury at tidewater tuneup. This now leads to pennsbury being said to barley squeeze into the top 5. milarky. pennsbury is the defending champs even if more then half of there team peaced
(graduated) Even though they have lost to columbia and north hills they have also beat them when it counts in two tournaments. You notice how i am only concerned about them losing to NH and CHS & thats because they are there only loses and the only compitition. Everyone hypes amherst and paidiea like there gods. no one has seen them yet so only the spring can tell where they fall but with most expierienced players they are also in the top 5. so now to the top 5 IN ORDER!!
1) Paideia
2) Columbia
3) Pennsbury
4) Amherst
5) North Hills
POINT BLANK CUT AND DRY GAME OVER THATS ALL THE EAST IS RIGHT THERE
PAYCE AND LOVE LAY ALL DAY
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