Thursday, February 01, 2007

Easterns/Westerns/YCC Apps availiable now!

From the desk of the upa...

Applications for 2007 HS Easterns, HS Westerns, and Youth Club Championships are now available. Go to the Youth Division page for information about eligibility and the application/selection process and to download an application. These are some of the most exciting and anticipated events on the Youth Ultimate calendar! Talk with your HS team or league about getting involved.

Youth Club Championships - league-based team applications due February 28
HS Easterns/Westerns - applications due March 23


Meredith Tosta

Director of Youth Development

Ultimate Players Association

if you plan on applying/attending, leave a comment, lets have a really really early look at the competition...


Anonymous said...

Anybody know anything about Paideia cup?

anonymous said...

Paideia Cup...

Anonymous said...

whats up everyone i know everyone is excited for the spring season! i am wondering if anyboy knows what teams got into the paideia cup please if theres any info let it be known!

Anonymous said... discussion on the Chattanooga Deep Freeze tourney? It's been over a week now.

Come on!

Anonymous said...

i don't even know where Chattanooga you guys have choo choo trains there?

Anonymous said...

im wondering what teams are going to be good this year. any new ones? any old ones going to loose a lot of good guys?

Anonymous said...

what teams are going to be good?

well both the girls and guys teams from the Northwest School are on top of the frisbee food chain.

below them are all the other seattle teams.

and then below them are all the schools not in close proximity to the space needle.

Anonymous said...

this im better than u mentality has to stop. Its just gonna cause arguements

Anonymous said...

What is up with this Deep Freeze tourney? Why does the UPA score reporter have 0-1 scorelines for so many games and how did LC Bird beat Paideia? Did this tournament even go through as planned!? Please tell me cuz the score reporter isnt very helpful for this tourney(which seems like it was pretty fun)

Anonymous said...

There is no way Paidea played full strength or took the game seriously and lost to any team.

Anonymous said...

Hopkins Hurt, despite losing 12 seniors, has a young and talented team that could make even more noise than last years squad did with their second place finish, and plans to attend the paideia cup.

Anonymous said...

so other than hopkins. who is going to paideia?

seems like everyone is asking and nobody knows.

Kyle Weisbrod said...

Paideia at Deep Freeze:

Paideia split into two even strength co-ed teams. Both teams lost in the semifinals - one to LC Bird and the other to University School of Nashville. I do not know who won the finals.

Teams invited to the Paideia Cup:

Open: Amherst, Columbia, Hopkins, North Hills, Paideia, Pennsbury, St. Johns-Ravenscourt, University School of Nashville

Girls: Amherst, HB Woodlawn, Hopkins, New England Rush (combo team), Paideia, St. Johns-Ravenscourt

Anonymous said...

I think Paideia can lose to some teams. Paideia Cup will be the best tourney of the year no doubt.

Anonymous said...

who is st johns ravencourt

CarlP00 said...

They are a good team out of Winnipeg. I think they were undefeated in the US last year. They won Granite City Classic and Madison Mudbath.

I don't know how they are this year but they were good last year.

Carl, Hopkins

Fantusta said...

Lots of MOHO (Won mixed YCCs, took 2nd at Canadian junior nationals last year) guys come from SJR.

Anonymous said...

im pretty sure you mean MOFO. MOHO is a team from seattle.

Fantusta said...

Yes, yes I did. Now, let us never speak of this again. >_>.

Anonymous said...

Who's going to YCC this year? Does Georgia have plans after taking a year off? Who is coming from Seattle or New England from powerhouses like Amherst or Northwest? Philadelphia is basically Pennsbury, will they be able to take a full-fledged New England or Seattle team? Will there be any underdogs like Colorado last year? It's pretty early, but people must have plans.

Anonymous said...

Well, you can count on Pittsburgh going to YCCs again and they will most likely be placing in the top four again.

Anonymous said...

Oregon is going to come most likely. You all better watch out.

Anonymous said...

i <3 seattle mixed!!

Anonymous said...

well i don't know about new england, but seattle will be bringing another strong, if not stronger team to YCC as many of its previous YCC players have yet to graduate.

i think the biggest question is whether or not there will be another girls team with the depth to take the seattle girls team.

Anonymous said...

Is someone from Oregon actually talking trash?


Anonymous said...

if everyone is so excited for the paideia cup this year you all should check out the highlight reel from the last one
i dont know who made it but they did a very good job

Anonymous said...

Philly will be made up of mostly Pennsbury but they will be able to weed out some good players that are left in PHUEL that can compete at that level. Not all of Pennsbury's best players attended last years YCC's either, look for Philly to be in it at the end.


Fantusta said...

Also, some of the graduated seniors from last year's Philly team are actually still young enough to qualify this summer, so there might be a couple extra old faces.

Anonymous said...

pennsbury's senior class is skipping there prom for easterns. also our prom is ranked as one of the best in the country. it says a lot about our passion for the game. and its not that we couldnt find dates either, were a dapper group of boys who just loves us some disc.
mark- pennsbury

Jake said...

where do i find the RRI on Proms?

Daniel said...

Churchill misses their prom too. Dang. And you can't get a better looking group of guys/girls than them.

Fantusta said...

I'd go if Noah Saul asked me to prom.

Anonymous said...

Pennsbury is obviously the best looking team in the country, just ask the Paideia girls.

Anonymous said...

why are frisbee players so fine?

must be the frisbee goggle talkin'...

Anonymous said...

i think the real question is how good will amherst be this year?? will they be able to keep up with paideia and pennsbury. post what you think

Anonymous said...

who posted about the paideia girls loving pennsbury. this is true hopkins girls also enjoy pennsbury. me noah and scotty had three in the bag untill one found out about a bet between scott and noah. this was at ycc. this spring is going to be crazy. ATL i can not wait. its ya boy.

Kyle Weisbrod said...


As a tournament director, this post represents the kind of behavior that makes me really not want to invite Pennsbury to any tournaments. On top of Philly's poor spirit score at YCC, this post displays:
1. Disrespect toward women on multiple levels
2. Disrespect toward the Ultimate community that you would think it ok to post this here

I would highly recommend deleting this post and thinking hard about what you write in public forums.

Anonymous said...

I think that a 17 year old kid posting a joke about girls, in response to an earlier post, on blogspot should not be taken so offensively. He had me and im sure many others laughing. He probably should of made the post a little more G-rated. And accusing him of representing Pennsbury's behavior, in a national tournament where Pennsbury isnt even being represented, Philadelphia is, well thats just quite ridiculous.

Tiina said...

Dear Mark and others who read this forum,

I have to agree with Kyle here. The post is insulting and makes me seriously reconsider letting Pennsbury into the Amherst Invitational this year. In terms of YCC, you can't have it both ways. If Pennsbury players were dominant on the YCC team (as we have heard repeatedly), then it is only logical to assume that they influenced the very low spirit score. In addition, we heard from last year's AI teams that they had numerous problems with Pennsbury. We didn't hear about the issues until this fall and we felt too much time had gone by to let it influence our decision.
However, in light of this latest post, it seems pretty clear that this attitude is most likely part of an overall pattern of disrespect towards women and other ultimate teams. And to those of you who think it is no big deal, that is certainly your choice. We, however, can also choose not to encourage, support, or allow it in any way.

Tiina Booth

Eddie Peters said...

Dear Tiina and Kyle,

Mark's comments do not represent Philadelphia SEPDA in any way. The Philadelphia team comprised of 5 Wissahickon players, 6 Lower Merion players, 5 Pennsbury players, and 4 CB East players. The spirit score was a result of our play. We gave high spirit scores to all teams we played and genuinely enjoyed the great competition.
The situation being discussed is exaggerated and misleading. That being said, I apologize for the offense my team member caused, and I'm sure his High School captain will have a discussion with him as to the risk to Pennsbury's bid. I would advise Mark to delete his post, if you could delete anonymous posts.

On a personal note, I'll vouch for Mark, Noah, and Scotty having respect for women and the Ultimate community as a whole.

-Eddie Peters
Philadelphia SEPDA '06 co-captain

Tiina said...

Thanks for your quick response, Eddie, and for not posting anonymously. I am curious about why you think your spirit score was so low, however. I know it is many months ago and it may be hard to remember, but I know that I was shocked that the winning team had the lowest score, not something I usually see in youth ultimate. I don't really understand what "The spirit score was the result of our play" means.

And while you may be able to vouch for these young men, keeping score about scoring with women speaks louder than anything else . . .

If you would like to respond privately to this, my email is Thanks again for your thoughtful response!


Eddie Peters said...

SEPDA's score was low because we spiked the disc. After almost every point, in fact. I didn't spike personally, but I don't disagree with the notion. There are two school's of thought around spiking. It's been discussed thoroughly, and I know how you feel about spiking. We spiked on New England, which they did not appreciate and I regret not telling the team to put an end to it. I feel this was our lowest spirit score. Colorado and Minnesota did not seem to mind, as they reciprocated (if I remember correctly).

We never spiked on a person, though in the Finals Scotty whipped a no-look backhand spike that managed to come out flat and hit my defender. Scotty apologized, and the player understood that it was a mistake; however, I'm not entirely sure the rest of Colorado believed this.

I don't recall any bad calls, on the part of any teams. In fact, there were very little calls the entire weekend. There was one issue between Philadelphia and Pittsburgh involving an in-out call that resulted in a heated and long debate, but both teams gave each other spirit scores of 5 (I believe).

In summary, I believe SEPDA spirit score was low because we spiked the disc after scoring, which some teams interpreted as disrespectful. This was not the attitude of SEPDA, and I'm sorry that our competition took it to heart.

-Eddie Peters

Tiina said...

Thanks for the explanation, Eddie. Your description is exactly the reason I dislike spiking on any level. Everyone gets to interpret it her/his own way and situations like this almost always occur. Even though you said, "This was not the attitude of SEPDA" you don't control how others view it and a low spirit score by your peers, and any resulting ramifications, is the really unfortunate result.
But I do appreciate the added information.

Anonymous said...

Dear Forum Readers,

I want to make it very clear that Mark's post does not represent Pennsbury as a whole. The post was clearly disrespectful and I think Mark was only responding to a post earlier made about Pennsbury and the Paideia girls who got along very well at the Padeia cup and are in fact still in touch because they became good friends. I do not want this to be looked at as a representation of Pennsbury, I am going to be Pennsbury's captain next year and I in no way support this attitude or bad spirit.My brother Noah, the captain of the team, is not home but this is an urgent issue that I will make him aware of and I am sure he will take appropiate actions. I hope Mark can be forgiven, but he does not speak for Scotty or Noah even though they were mentioned in his post. I know from living with the kid for 15 years that he has plenty of respect for women, and my families respect and Noah's personal respect for the game of Ulimate can not be measured on any scale. I am sincerely sorry that this has caused so much commotion.

Isaac Saul #19
Pennsbury Varsity Ultimate

Anonymous said...

i really didnt mean anything bad by what i said. i was joking completley i would gladly erase my post but i cant. it was a joke that was taken in a wrong way. me and all of pennsbury love the game and are looking forward to the spring. i hope that my stupid post doesnt effect our chances of playing in the tourniments that we are looking forward to go to so much. i really am sorry.

Anonymous said...

I dont know any of the pennsbury players. but i think that it is disappointing to see how seriously this post was taken.

we are bunch of highschool players who started joking about how good looking we are, and someone took it a little far. but that comment was meant as a joke, and i doubt you could find any hopkins girls who would take offense.

this is ultimate frisbee. we like to joke around and have a good time, and if anything, male players pay greater respect to female players in ultimate that in any other sport i've played.

and you wonder why so many people here post anonymously.

Anonymous said...

I agree, the post was a complete joke and in reality, THESE ARE HIGH SCHOOL KIDS, I think Mark from Pennsbury was just kind of running with this thing. Im sure if he knew how serious it would have been taken he wouldnt of posted it.

Anonymous said...

I am glad to see the last two posts understand what i think the important thing is to remember here: we are high schoolers trying to have fun. This post was a macho 18 year old's bad attempt at humor, which was clearly not interpreted the way it was intended. That being said, there is certainly no excuse for the disrespectful post, and i apologize on behalf of mark, and for even being involved. That type of behavior absolutely does not characterize or represent the players on Philadelphia SEPDA, or Pennsbury. And as a captain of both teams, it saddens and offends me that the teams' respect for the game and for women is in question. There have been no other instances where SEPDA or Pennsbury could even be thought of as disrespectful. Of course there are inspirited games occasionally, but that is true for any competitive team. The Philly -Pittsburgh game was especially bad, and im sure giving pitt a sarcastic 5 spirit score while we undoubtedly received a 0 did not help our overall spirit ranking.

I am sorry to even have to defend my teams on this blog. Mark is known for his cocky, fun, and usually harmless attitude on the team. His remarks on this blog were downright stupid, but his intentions were in good fun. I am sorry for all of the commotion this has caused, and even sorrier for the damage to the reputations of Pennsbury and SEPDA.

Noah Saul #24
Pennsbury Ultimate

Fantusta said...

If I may as well chime in on the low score we (SEPDA) received, not only did we spike after every point, we treated each and every point as a reason to cheer and storm the field -- it brought our team together, and kept intensity high. I'm sure when a team was down quite a few points to us, they may have interpreted this as disrespectful, but we had made a specific decision to pursue this course of action, and it certainly seemed to work.

Julian Hausman said...

Pittsburgh gave SEPDA a spirit score of 4 I believe. Aside from the two arguments (that last about 20 minutes) in the endzone, it was a great game that was pretty spirited.

In both years of the YCC, multiple teams have stormed the field to pump themselves up. Its a good way to bring the team together. However, teams probably got upset because spikes and storms were done gratuitously.

Julian Hausman
Pittsburgh Impulse
Mount Lebanon

Kyle Weisbrod said...

Fantusta said, "I'm sure when a team was down quite a few points to us, they may have interpreted this as disrespectful, but we had made a specific decision to pursue this course of action, and it certainly seemed to work."

Noah said, "Of course there are (u)nspirited games occasionally, but that is true for any competitive team."

The Spirit of the Game clause from the rules: "Ultimate relies upon a spirit of sportsmanship which places the responsibility for fair play on the player. Highly competitive play is encouraged, but never at the expense of mutual respect between players, adherence to the agreed upon rules of the game, or the basic joy of play. Protection of these vital elements serves to eliminate adverse conduct from the Ultimate field. Such actions as taunting of opposing players, dangerous aggression, belligerent intimidation, intentional fouling, or other 'win at all costs' behavior are contrary to the Spirit of the Game and must be avoided by all players."

Noah and Fantusta's comments are in direct opposition to the Spirit of the Game clause. You can be competitive and be spirited. It's just about respecting your opponent. Prioritizing competition above respect is counter to SOTG.

Ryan said...

I don't see where you draw a connection between Fantusta's post(s) and Noah's one-liner to the bolded parts of the Spirit of the Game definition/rule.

SEPDA players haven't said that they didn't respect the other team or follow the rules, taunted opposing players, intimidate them, etc.

If someone had a problem with the spikes or charging the fields, the captains/coaches should have talked about it then, not after the fact on playultimate.

Anonymous said...

I agree with Ryan, Noah and Fantusta's comments are being taken the wrong way, all Noah is saying is that there are going to be unspirited games with competitive teams, he is acknowledging the existence of unspirtited games, and nothing more.

Anonymous said...

I’d like to take a moment to comment on Pennsbury’s play and reputation. I feel as though I have a somewhat unique perspective, seeing as how I have probably coached more games against Pennsbury than anyone else in Ultimate, while at the same time I’ve coached some of the Pennsbury players who chose to play for SEPDA.

There’s really only one word to describe Pennsbury’s play: shocking. But I don’t mean it in the way you might think. Let me explain… .

Over six years, my team has badly beaten Pennsbury (rare), played tight games with Pennsbury, and been blown out by Pennsbury. No matter what the situation, Pennsbury has always played EXACTLY the same way – as hard as they can. Honestly, I was a little bit taken aback by the intensity of the team the first few times I coached against them – and that was when we were beating them. These guys were laying out all over the field, their sideline was always loud, and they fired each other up in between every play. Over time, what I came to realize is that this team shows great respect for their opponents – they give EVERYONE their best game. In my opinion (and I understand this is subjective) there is nothing more disrespectful than patronizing an opponent by “playing” with them. When I schedule a game against another team, I hope they play within the rules and the spirit of the game to give me the best game they’ve got. I feel as though my players deserve that. Pennsbury always gives it.

They yell. They’re loud. But I’ve never seen them be mean-spirited. In case you haven’t picked up on it yet, I’m actually a little bit mystified and awed by how they’ve done it. These guys get more excited about a meaningless mid-season high school game than I’ve seen teams get in the “game-to-go” to nationals. Frankly, I think it’s awesome, and I’m glad it has rubbed off on some of the other Philly players. I can understand how some teams can be surprised by such intensity. I can see how it could be misinterpreted as unspirited – in the beginning, I sort of felt that way too. But in all honesty, I don’t think it is contrary to the spirit of the game. I think it IS spirited play.

This isn’t to say that Pennsbury has never been without fault. There has been an occasion or two where I have asked the team to refrain from some sort of behavior that I thought inappropriate. To their credit, the team has always responded with an apology and stopped. That’s more than I can say for some other teams whom I have hosted at tournaments.

As to Mark’s objectifying comments…. As a high school teacher, I can only say that sort of behavior is all too common. I’d be willing to bet that Mark, like a lot of other 18 year old boys, is so inundated by misogynistic culture that he doesn’t even realize what he’s saying. Kudos for pointing it out, because that’s the only way it’ll go away. I’m glad Mark seems apologetic.

-Rob Olson

Anonymous said...

well put Rob.

Anonymous said...


1.Don't you play for Bravo? If you care so much about spirit of the game, then how can you, in good conscience, play for them?
You said "Such actions as taunting of opposing players, dangerous aggression, belligerent intimidation, intentional fouling, or other 'win at all costs' behavior are contrary to the Spirit of the Game" However, the most infamous example of such a violation comes from the very team you play for.

Hmmmm...In this video a bravo player scores a goal, and spikes it in the face of sockeye player and then yells "hit the weights."
Intimidation? check
Taunting? check

If you are as serious about spirit as you sound on message boards shouldn't you have walked off the field? How can you lead the crusade for spirit of the game, while at the same time playing for a team that does stuff like that? Where are you in the video reprimanding your teammate?

2. I do not believe that spiking is unspirited. I am fine with it.

3. I find it disgusting, and reprehensible that you are vilifying a high schooler for making a joke. It is ridiculous to even talk about kicking them out of a tournament. Lighten up.

Anonymous said...

Can people please find the guts to list their name with their posts? If you don’t want to be connected to your post you probably shouldn’t be posting it. By the way I don’t have a problem with spiking or storming the field, yet it shouldn’t be done in bad taste.

Zach Ehler
Mt. Lebanon Ultimate

LittleOrphanAnnie44 said...

And that same Bravo player went to Paideia...


Anonymous said...

This is an interesting point, I think I speak for all viewers of this Blog when I ask that a response to these last 3 blogs is needed. Suddenly Kyle has nothing to post? Where is the rebuttal?

We seek answers.

Anonymous said...

I would also like to contribute a few thoughts on the thread which has occurred about the earlier post from Mark. First, Mark obviously made a mistake with his comment and it was disrespectful. The feedback he has received has made him very aware of that, and I believe he has learned from this. He has seen how his comments reflected poorly even in the way others viewed his teammates. He has shown his regret with a later post on the forum; perhaps an additional letter sent directly to the Hopkins girls team would also be a good idea.

His teammates have shared their thoughts and I think it is important to weigh what they said. I do not know Mark very well at all, so I am not in a position to share some of the insights that his teammates did. As coordinator of the Philly high school league, I have had plenty of contact with Pennsbury. My experience is very similar to what Rob Olson (coach of CB East High School and the SEPDA team) wrote. I have not seen them as much as Rob has, but I would agree with the sentiment that he shared.

Here is what I know and have been told about girls on the Pennsbury ultimate team. Pennsbury has had girls on the team for several years (at least at the local Philly tourneys). They have increased the number of girls and this year have enough to start a girls team, perhaps between 10 and 12. Noah, Mark, and other members of the boys team at Pennsbury have been very supportive of the efforts of the girls.

In terms of tournaments I have run, the Pennsbury team has always been helpful, either in bringing supplies or one year even housing a team from out of town. Pennsbury has hosted several tourneys each year for the past few years, having a top division, and also helping to breed ultimate by having a division for teams that are not quite as experienced. In the fall of 2005, they won the Kat in the Hat tournament AND the spirit award for Division I. They received perfect scores of 10 from Princeton and Columbia (Columbia was their opponent in the championship game.) In the Fall 2006 Kat in the Hat, they received spirit scores of 10, 8, and 8. Are they perfect? No, but who of is really is?

Spirit of the game is tremendously important and we should all do our best to pass this message on to the next generation of ultimate players. Mark used poor judgment in posting a disrespectful comment. It seems as if he is remorseful and that this has been a very public lesson that he has learned. Another important part of spirit of the game should be forgiveness. If Mark (and perhaps others) truly has learned a lesson, let’s try to make a positive out of this. Penalizing his entire team by excluding them from tournaments based on an email post would seems to be a bit extreme. Forgiveness and respect are both important aspects for all as we try to model spirit of the game for those involved in youth ultimate.

Mark Rosser
Philadelphia High School League coordinator

Anonymous said...

This post is getting way out of hand,

First off Pennsbury is a team that competes hard and does not cheat on the field or call false calls. Pennsbury has a history of being a cocky group of kids, who are a little rough around the edges, this could be because they were basically a kid run team, who until recently did not have a real adult coach. Thanks to Bill Kieffer of Rutgers Machine and Pike, they are working on letting their play speak for it’s self. Bill, who is known for joking with many ultimate players and enjoying the game at all levels, was not coaching them for most of the fall and with his advisement only strong play and spirit could come to an already athletic and skilled Pennsbury team. I believe that this spring will bring a different type of Pennsbury. What were the Pennsbury spirit scores from past tournaments any way?

About Mark’s comments:
The definition of team is “a number of persons forming one of the sides of a game or contest” Mark is one person not an attire team and he (as most high school students do) posted without thinking. He apologized for the comment that he made and I know that his teammates reprimanded him for the idiocy that came out of his finger tips and on to the screen. I also know that Bill sent the team an email saying that this action was not ok and that they need to respect the game and the people who play it better. I have played with Mark in summer league and I know that he is not normally this crude and actually is very friendly towards every person he comes in contact with.

As far as any bashing against Kyle Weisbrod, Kyle did play for Bravo, and none of us know what Kyle said to his teammate after the clip in question. Kyle is a major reason why many juniors events, blogs, and spirited play happens. As the juniors director he worked hard to keep the juniors level spirited, organized, and competitive. He had a great mentor with Michael B at Paideia and I know that I have nothing but the highest of respect for him.

I think that playultimate is a great blog spot, it’s a way for a player or coach to get up to date information on tournaments and also to get some idea of how things are run. Lets keep the posts about ultimate and not about proms, which team has the hottest girls, and so. Spirit is not just for games and tournaments, its for everyday life as well. I am sure Mark has learned an important lesson from all this feedback lets not roast him too badly.

Anthony Nunez
Columbia High School Coach

Anonymous said...


Regardless if Kyle "had a great mentor", his posts on this message board regarding spirit, and his role on a team such as Bravo are contradictory. It's nice you have such a high opinion of Kyle, and Play Ultimate. Unfortunately, those opinions are irrelevant in this discussion.

"Spirit is not just for games and tournaments, its for everyday life as well."

hahahahaha. You're bullshit is so ridiculous, it's embarrassing.

Anonymous said...

I love how people don't man up and sign their posts when they criticize others. That is what is bullshit and embarassing.

Reuben Saul
Maryland Ultimate, #26
Pennsbury Ultimate '04

Anonymous said...

I have been reading this post for a couple of days now. There isn't much I can say about Mark and the Pennsbury team as far as Mark's comment goes. But the several times we have played them or have watched them play they have been nothing but competivite(in a good spirited way) and I know that when we play them it will always be a good game. I am writing to say that I agree with the Colubmia coach and that Anonymous's post on his commments are completely out of line, especially because he did not sign the post.
I think that if any person is going to comment on this issue or take shots at other people who comment on this issue should sign there post.

Iv Neov- YHB Ultimate

Kyle Weisbrod said...

First of all, it really would be nice if folks posted with their name instead of anonymously. I'll respond to the posts above, but in the future, I'll only respond to signed posts.

Second, sorry it took so long to post, I was coaching all day and wanted to give the response the proper time it deserved.

While I wish that whomever pulled up the Bravo video had signed their name to the post, I am glad that they did bring it up. While the name calling, sarcasm, and disrespect in some of the previous posts is not necessary, I think the discussion itself is worthwhile.

Yes, I played for Bravo for 5 years. I no longer play with them. When I began playing with Bravo I was not a fan of the way the team treated other teams. I made that clear to teammates through direct conversations, e-mails, and by modeling what I thought was right whenever possible. In addition, my teammates certainly read my magazine articles. Did Bravo's "Spirit" improve over the past five years - I think it did greatly. Was the team's behavior or my own without flaw, certainly not.

Should I have quit because the team's spirit being below my own standard? I debated this every year and always felt that I could do more to change it by being on the team than by quitting. In the end, that the team did not have the culture that I would have wanted was one of the factors playing into me moving on.

Would I object if my team were not invited to a tournament for egregiously or repeatedly crossing over the standard of behavior set by the sport? No. I wish tournaments at more levels had a higher minumum standard expected of teams playing. More tournaments should keep and publicize spirit scores to give teams feedback for their behavior and possibly to sanction teams with low spirit. Tournaments and leagues should also be UPA sanctioned so that conduct violations can be reported to the UPA and acted on by the UPA's conduct committee. As long as those standards were applied evenly, I would not have any reason to object.

Spiking, taunting, and intentional fouling do happen. That does not mean that they have to happen at the competetive or any other level. The fact that everyone here can watch the video of Jolian spiking and interpret his intent for themselves is the exact reason I don't like spiking. Perhaps the spike or what he said weren't intended as disrespectful (I can't speak for Jolian) but that does not mean that they were not taken that way by his defender, the rest of Sockeye, and clearly by the person who posted the video. People who see teams or players spike can not infer the context of a spike from just seeing it and so go on to do it at their games, slowly eroding the respect that the sport is built on. I have consistently spoken out on why I think spiking is a problem for the sport, while also consistently saying we shouldn't legislate against it because then we would be taking away responsibility from players themselves to respect their opponents.

The comments from Mark that started this thread go beyond spiking. Mark's comments were mysoginistic and targeted two teams that will be at the upcoming Paideia Cup. The language used and the story about the YCC leading directly into the statements about being excited about this spring and the Paideia Cup are, in any context, creepy and wrong. It was a gross breach of trust and are therefore being taken more seriously than simply spiking.

Does anyone have perfect Spirit? Of course not, but that should not prevent us from speaking out about disrespectful actions in the community. When it comes down to it, playing Ultimate, like any sport is a shared experience between the two teams on the field, the teams at a tournament, and the community that plays the sport. As such, it is vital to respect those on the field and in the sport. I believe that it is important for everyone to understand this as a basic premise for sport and we should all be involved in teaching that. In all cases this should mean modeling respectful behavior yourself. On the positive side it should be recognizing and rewarding positive behavior. When teams or players go over that line in most cases the correct course of action is to speak up about it. In the most extreme cases it means letting teams know that they are not welcome at your events, not playing certain teams, letting TDs know that you won't attend events where a certain team is playing, or quitting a team whose behavior is beyond the pale. I believe that Mark's comments are near that line for me. We are still debating what, if any, the repercussions will be as it relates to the Paideia Cup.

As I said, I really do appreciate this discussion and arguments when they are made respectully. Mark, Rob, and Eddie have done so (pretty much anyone who signs their name tends to do so).

Anonymous said...

From the Summer 2006 UPA newsletter. Spirit scores from 2006 Easterns.

1. Madison 5.00
2. Princeton 4.8
3. Scarsdale 4.5
4. McCallie 4.33
5t. LC Bird 4.3
5t. AMHERST 4.3
7t. PENNSBURY 4.25
7t. Univ. Scool of Nashville 4.25
9t. Yorktown 4.08
9t. Lincoln-Sudbury 4.08
11. Milton 3.93
12. Hampton 3.83
13t. Columbia 3.8
13t. Madison West 3.8
15. Wissahickon 3.5
16. Mt Lebanon 2.83

Anonymous said...

Clearly, there is something wrong here. You have one or two people fighting against everyone else. This is being blown out of proportion, Mark has been embarrassed, referred to as "creepy," and in general he has been torn apart for one ignorant post. I think everyone needs to let this go, and let it be. I'm sure this is being handled privately. This kid is a high schooler, Pennsbury is clearly, from all of these posts, a spirited and competitive team. Its time to let this go.

Anonymous said...

word is bond.

Brian Walter
Columbia Ultimate #32

Anonymous said...

Why can't we all be friends?

: /

J Cal

YHB Ultimate

Anonymous said...

To change the topic, the YHB teams are up. They are Yorkton, Cardinal Gibbons, Princeton, Woodside, LC Bird, THe pterodactyls, Columbia HS Coed X, Columbia HS Coed Y, and Watchung Hills. Anyone have any thoughts on that.

Anonymous said...

My name is Erica Baken and I am the captain of the hopkins girls team. I recently spoke with my team after reading this. I would like to set the record straight as I was embarassed for my team when I read his post. Thankfully, this boy was making the story up.

I know the girls he is talking about and talked to them about what happened. First of all, only one of them is from hopkins and secondly, they had no intention of sleeping with anyone at that tournament.

But the fact that he made this story up doesn't make it any less disturbing. It disgusts me that me or my teammates are potential betting games for you.

-Erica Baken

Anonymous said...


I understand your disgust with what was said by Mark earlier in this thread. I just wanted to point out that there was no mention in his post about sleeping with anyone. I am sorry your team was subject to these remarks.

Reuben Saul
Maryland Ultimate, #26
Pennsbury Ultimate '04

Anonymous said...

The premis of the bet had nothing to do with anything sexual. All it was, was a bet of whether we could get the girls to hang out with us. We had no intention of violating them, or making bets on who could get with them. It was hardly a bet, I used the word bet because it seemed the like the only word that could clarify what happened.It was more like a dare. Id also like to say, when i said "this spring is going to be crazy" i was referring to our schedule of games and nothing to do with any women. I am so sorry this has caused so much commotion, and id like to apologize specifically to Erica for what has happened. I hope all this can be talked out and we can come to a reasonable solution. Once again, Im really sorry for any embarrasment i may have caused anyone.


Anonymous said...

don't worry mark, everyone is over reacting. It's what juniors coaches do. Love you buddy


Anonymous said...

"hahahahaha. You're bullshit is so ridiculous, it's embarrassing."

Have you ever met Kyle? Have you ever even heard of him? Do you realize that if it weren't for him, there wouldn't be a YCC for us to be discussing? You can disagree with him, but for god's sake, don't insult and alienate someone who for years has been YOUR biggest advocate. Kyle is a classy guy, a great player and coach, and a caring and diligent UPA Youth Director. (Not to mention his efforts organizing and managing Team USA for Junior Worlds.) You don't owe him any allegiance, but you absolutely owe him your respect.

"I find it disgusting, and reprehensible that you are vilifying a high schooler for making a joke. It is ridiculous to even talk about kicking them out of a tournament. Lighten up."

Mark made a mistake- one that I learned about my freshman year when I (stupidly) posted on RSD. My coach called me out on it, and I never did it again. He too, seems to have learned his lesson, and has apologized. But really, like it or not, whenever you are wearing your team's jersey, posting on a blog, or writing on RSD, you are representing your team, just as you do on the field. You represent your team the best you can on the field. Do the same online, and think of who you're really speaking for before you post.

East Ultimate #8
USA #27

Anonymous said...

ya and stop givin people so much crap about anonymous posts. its the over reactions like this that make epoepl post anonymously, so they dont embarass there team

Anonymous said...

To all it may concern.

Being a friend to Mark Dundala for longer than i have been alive, he has been raised in a family with only his Mom and older sisster, I know he has great repect for woman. I also was involved in the "bet" which wasn't a bet at all. Only a dare.

Eddie Peterson has brought up the most embarressing moment in my ultimate carrer. It was in the finals of YCC and a caught a point to go up 3-0 and just released the disc in excitment which accidently hit a player on Denver. This was not ment to be a spike or to spike on player of the oppossing team. I just got caught up in the moment and planned to throw the disc to the center line in middle of the field, and walk off the field. Little did i know that there was two other players in the endzone, Eddie and a Denver Player. The disc hit Denver player and i turned bright red and started apologizing. I felt so embarrassed that everyone on Denver, and in crowd would think of me as that unspirited player that would spike a disc on an oppossing player, hitting them with the disc. Again, i would like to apologize to that player, to the Denver team as whole, and to anyone who saw this and thought it was incredibly unspirited. That moment does not stand for who i am or how i play. I thought about that event alot after the tournamnt, and hoped people forgot about and it would never again be broughten up. Thanks Eddie...

On behave of my teams, Pennsbury and SEPDA I promise we will contend to win the spirit awards at all spring and summer tournaments. I saw the spirit awards in the magazine as a bad reflection of myself and my ultimate community. Please give us that chance.

Scott Wright
Pennsbury Ultimate

Eddie Peters said...

Sorry I brought it up, Scotty.

Anonymous said...


I am sorry that you and your team have been embarassed. Mark obviously new the truth behind the "bet" when he posted, and was only thinking of his friends and teammates, who also know what really happened, when he made this bad joke. Please understand that mark never thought anyone would take his post seriously. I want to make it clear that no money or reward was ever a part of this "bet", which was merely a challenge to get the girls to come to our hotel to hang out. We did not intend to do anything sexual with these girls and assumed they felt the same. I, in fact, am friends with and still talk to one of them, and I am glad that she also thinks there has been an over-reaction and is hoping that we will be at the Paideia Cup.

It sickens me to be thought of as someone who would care about a bet over the feelings or safety of another person. My teammates and I are all normal, consciencious people who would not do such a thing.

I am truly sorry that you were dragged into this mess.

Noah Saul #24
Pennsbury Ultimate

McCabe said...

If i may interject, i would just like to say that while jokes might have been in bad taste here, and there have been multiple misunderstandings and back and forth and response and re-response, i am fairly impressed by the level of civility among all involved parties.

I have never seen so many "young" (i am a peer so please excuse the qualifier) people apologize so sincerely and show such class and maturity as those who have posted recently.

And with that observation, i'd say, lets let this thread rest at 80 comments, and look forward to the spring season.

Misunderstandings were had by all, but i think the resulting actions show great promise for the maturity among future members of the larger ultimate community as a whole and i am impressed by the level of civility and rational reaction.

That being said, discussion closed.