Wednesday, February 28, 2007

College Tournaments

There are a few High Schools ou there who have been wanting to get an early start on the season. They often find themselves then looking at the College Division and their tournaments as it is both larger and offers a greater range of opporunties to play.

Also, as the College Division does not contain an official Mixed Division, there is a higher number of OPEN and GIRLS options available to HS programs seeking OPEN and GIRL opportunities. And if anyone has taken a look on either RSD, here, or the UPA website, there is a great lack of tournaments for any HS Division, let alone the OPEN and GIRLS...

So, this has led me and other coaches in our area to seek college tournaments for our players. What college tournaments are some of your schools requesting, pleading, begging, and doing your best to get into?

Current HS Teams (who have or will be) Attending College Tourneys:

Paideia HS Open:
-Chucktown Throwdown 02.24/25 - (seeded 15th - finished 1st)
-Mudbowl XXVI - 03.03/04 - (seeded 12th - finished 1st)

Northwest HS Open:
-PLU BBQ - 03.10/11 - (seeded 13th - tied for 3rd)
-Dirty Deeds - 03.17/18

South Eugene HS Open:
-PLU BBQ - 03.10/11 - (seeded 14th - tied for 5th)
-Dirty Deeds - 03.17/18

Churchill HS Open:
-PLU BBQ - 03.10/11 - (seeded 15th - tied for 5th)

-Dirty Deeds - 03.17/18

Amherst HS Open:
-Lemony Spring - 03.24/25 - (seeded 1st)

Needham HS Open:
-Lemony Spring - 03.24/25 - (seeded 10th)

Northwest HS Girls:
-PLU BBQ - 03.10/11 - (seeded 9th)

Churchill HS Girls:
-PLU BBQ - 03.10/11 - (seeded 10th - tied for 3rd)
-Dirty Deeds - 03.17/18


Anonymous said...

PLU BBQ (Tacoma, WA) - March 10-11

Lukester said...

PLU BBQ is taking place on March 10/11. I am not sure what else you are letting us know. Are you part of a HS team that PLU has let in?

From what I understand, PLU leadership has changed a bit in their perspectives this year and are much more hessitant to let HS teams into their tournament in fear that it potentially looses them college bids. This could have come from the fact that Northwest School did so well last year and with additional bid requests from both Churchill and South Eugene, there was even greater fear (if i can say that word).

Needless to say, we at CHS tried to get into PLU. It is closer than Dirty Deeds and it was something we heard that Northwest had gotten into the year before. It is back to back with Dirty Deeds and thus is no longer an option for us even if they wanted us to come

McCabe said...

id be interested to hear, for those high school teams who attend college tournaments -

do you find the experience rewarding?

is it beneficial for your team?

especially if you are a high school team that is not winning these college tournaments, perhaps even getting beat pretty well, is it worth it?

would you recommend it for other high school teams who might not be able to find a hs tournament to attend?

i think its awesome that hs teams can compete at these levels, but im just wondering what the players and coaches of those teams think about the value of the tournaments. *very interested*

Thomas Sanchez said...

With High School teams at College tournaments I think there is a fine line between it being a beneficial or detrimental experience. There are so many HS teams that are not ready to be playing at that level and I would never reccomend an inexperienced program to be looking at college tournaments simply because there is nowhere else to play. Playing with older kids that are more athletic and more disciplined (which college players often are, in comparison) is probably going to be bad for the spirits of a team that can't consistently complete passes, etc.

Having said that, for more established, national-caliber HS programs, playing with College kids can give your team something to look up to and better competition if none other exists. Even being beaten has something to teach. Playing on the college level is definitely something that is going to give you an edge over the competition.

The lack of High School competition/opportunities has pushed my team (Alameda Dark Meat)to play almost exclusively at College tournaments during the Fall/Winter seasons, and we have several players playing (illegitimately) with College teams at other tournaments.

It's my feeling that there has been much less opportunity for HS teams to get good playing time this season, at least here on the West Coast. Anyone wanna speculate as to why? and what are we going to do about it?

Anonymous said...

I know that when I was in high school we always found it beneficial to play in college tournaments. Before there was a "Youth Club" division we would go to college tournaments with a league All-Star team. This would give us more competitive players a chance to play at a higher level then we would normally experience.

We would also bring with us some younger players that we felt had potential to play with us. This gave them a chance to play at a higher level and many times helped their passion for Ultimate grow. I don't think it was a coincidence that these younger players eventually became the stars on their high school teams long after we had graduated.

Plus, it always feels good to beat a college team when you're in high school.

Reuben Saul
Pennsbury Ultimate, '04
Maryland Ultimate, #26

Mike Mullen said...

We go to college tournaments because they are the only single gender tournaments in the area in the early season. PLU has always been great to us. We lost in the semi's two years ago and lost in the quarters last year. If there were more HS tourneys for single gender we would go to those instead. Playing college teams has an upside and a downside but all in all it is worth it for us. It is nice to play against former players from our team as well from some other high schools. The colleges do a good job of showing our kids that they have good programs as well which is a bonus for them. On occasion there is a spirit issue with someone spiking on us but the teams usually tell their spikers that it is not cool to act like a tough guy and spike on the youngsters.

One thing for sure that keeps getting us invited back is that our sportsmanship is very high, we are organized, we communicate well with the TD's, we get our tourney fees in early, we don't attend the party, and we don't give the tourney organizer any reason not to invite us back. When the time happens that the college tourneys don't have room for us I will understand when we get bumped because after all it is a college tourney.

Or it may happen that one high school team does something really stupid and spoils it for everyone else. Heopfully that won't happen.

Mike Mullen said...


My opinion about the lack of opportunities for single gender teams is simply because there aren't enough of us yet. Coed is easier because you don't need as many players to be good and it serves both genders at the same time so it is more socially attractive too.

I heard a rumor you guys might come up to Coed Spring Reign this year. Is that true?

I think there is a 50/50 chance that west coast high school ultimate will jump to the fall sometime in the next five years. Think about it, there are less sports drawing players in the fall. If our HS soccer league goes to spring we will have no choice but to go to the fall with boys ultimate. If that happens you better believe that we are going to try to make something happen on the West Coast. It sure would be sweet to have a tourney in San Diego in November, maybe the weekend after adult club nationals.


CarlP00 said...

We have gone to one college tourney (Exit 69 in Northfield, MN) and one indoor college tournament (Duluth, MN) so far and they have both been pretty fun and helpful.

My favorite part is that some of the mid-level college teams play really hard because they don't want to get beat by a high school team. I don't blame them, it is sort of a lose-lose situation for them.

Anonymous said...

How did the paideia school do in their college tourney this weekend?

Anonymous said...

Paideia won the tournament.

Anonymous said...

When was the last time a high school team won a college tourney?

Tiina said...

ARHS boys won a NE college tournament in April 2005 and finished #2 at the UMass tournament in 2006.
Congrats to Paideia! What a great way to start your season!

Anonymous said...

when was the last time amherst lost to a high school team? 2002 finals to paideia?

Anonymous said...

Any updates on how Paideia is doing at Mudbowl?

Anonymous said...

Seeing as how Paideia can compete with college teams and have a good team this year are you going to go to Easterns?

Anonymous said...

paideia apparently went 4-0 saturday, winning their pool and upsetting #1 seeded michigan st.

Anonymous said...

accroding to, they won again. they beat Emory in Finals 15 - 8.

Kyle Weisbrod said...

Paideia is not applying to Easterns this year - it conflicts with graduation. We will be playing at HS Terminus, Paideia Cup, the Amherst Invite, and the GA HS State Championships.

Anonymous said...

Personally ,i think that sucks, Paideia i, in my opinion, WOULD probably sweep easterns with EASE this year. They have won 2 college tourneys, and played against good teams, winning by BIG margins. While i know its extremely difficult to accomdate all of the teams schedule, trying to find one that fits all. All im saying is that if i was a senior, almost being 100% sure that we could win easterns, yet we couldnt attend i would be buggin'


Anonymous said...

it does stink to miss out on easterns, but the paideia cup will be an even greater test and will include most of the top teams that would have competed for the titles at easterns and westerns (excluding Northwest).

Tiina said...

Let's see . . .
1) the last time we lost to a single high school team (as opposed to losing to Seattle at YCC in 2005) was in April 2003 to Greenfield, a school up here.
2) We just got into another college tournament, as did Needham High. It's called Lemony Spring and is the weekend of March 24-25.
3) Congrats again to Paideia! Here's a fun question to discuss: since Paideia is ranked 25th in the country now among colleges, should they be visibly ranked on the UPA college poll? (the change was made a year ago to NOT include high schools on the official college poll.)


Anonymous said...

I would like to congratulate Paideia on both of their tourney wins, and wish them the best of luck on the rest of the season. In response to Tiina's question, i believe that they should be in the official college poll. They have worked hard to get to the level they are at, so why not recognize that by putting them in? Keep up the good work.

Kyle Weisbrod said...

I would say Paideia should not be ranked on the college poll. We can all figure out where Paideia would fit in on the ranking system so it doesn't really do us any good at all. For those folks who don't know anything about the sport I think if they saw a high school team in the college rankings it would hurt the legitimacy of the sport in their eyes.

Imagine that you are a college team that just made it into the top 25 and you want to show that off to your administration to curry good favor. You forward the link to the RRI to your AD and she notes that, while you are 24th in the country, there is a high school team better than your team. What does she think of the sport? Your team? I just don't think including high schools in the college ranking does much for any of us.

Anonymous said...

hmm i hadn't thought of that, i guess thats why we have people like kyle. i will take my earlier comment back, but would still like to congratulate paideia.

Tiina said...

Yeah. I agree with Kyle. He's got the big picture in sight and he IS right . . . sheesh.


Anonymous said...

anybody got any juice on how competitive north hills, nashville school, colombia, or SJR will be this spring.

Mike Mullen said...

I wouldn't put too much into the seeds for these college tournaments. As someone who has put together tournament schedules in which you are trying to avoid certain matchups (such as Churchill and South Eugene traveling to Seattle to play each other in pool play) it is more imporatant to get balanced pools than it is to get the seeding right. All that said I would be shocked if all the HS teams at PLU don't finish higher than they were seeded.

Tiina said...

ARHS is not seeded first at Lemony Spring, nor is Needham seeded tenth. The team list is alphabetical.


Anonymous said...

can someone post how the highschool teams(open and womens) did in PLUBBQ?

Collin said...

I'm not completely positive about all the details but I'll give a summary of the open:

On Saturday Northwest School went 4-0 and finished first in their pool. South Eugene went 2-2 and finished third. Churchill went 3-1 and finished second. On Sunday both Churchill and South won their pre-quarter game and lost their quarterfinal game. Northwest school won their qarterfinal game (which was against Churchill). After that I'm not sure what happened in the semis.

Churchill scores:
CHS vs. Reed ------ 14-13
CHS vs. PLU B ----- 13-2
CHS vs. Chico ----- 9-13
CHS vs. WSU ------- 13-6

CHS vs. Whitman --- 13-7
CHS vs. Northwest - 7-12

That's just from memory so some of those might be a bit off, but I think they're about right.

Final records:
Northwest School -- 5-1/6-0(?)
Churchill --------- 4-2
South Eugene ------ 3-3

-Collin Smith
Churchill High School